Our Norman Heritage

Explore Jersey's Norman heritage as we look ahead to 2027 when we mark a thousand years since the birth of William the Conqueror. In this episode, we journey back to our Norman roots through the Island's Norman history, and how that history has shaped our Island. 

Hosts, Mel and Perry are joined by historian Jean Treleven who guides us through the history of how our Norman heritage is what uniquely defined us then, but also defines us now.  Jean shares in depth insights and fascinating facts as we prepare for one of the most significant commemorations in our Island's story.

Support our 2027 Norman projects by making a donation on our website.

Transcript

The Jersey Heritage Podcast: The Small Island, Big Story Sessions 

Our Norman Heritage with Jean Treleven

Perry (00:03):

Welcome to the Jersey Heritage Podcast.

Mel (00:06):

The Small Island big story sessions.

Perry (00:08):

You're listening to Mel and Perry. In today's episode, we're exploring the Norman history of Jersey and the story that has shaped our island.

Mel (00:18):

As we look ahead to 2027, marking a thousand years since the birth of William the Conqueror, we're beginning a journey back to our Norman roots, uncovering the people, events and influences that still define Jersey today.

Perry (00:33):

This milestone anniversary gives us an opportunity to reflect on where we come from and why our Norman heritage continues to matter. To guide us through this history, we're joined by local historian, Jean Treleven, who brings insight, depth and fascinating stories as we prepare for one of the most significant commemorations in our island's heritage.

Mel (00:54):

Thank you for joining us today, Gene. Welcome to the Jersey Henry Podcast. , Let's start with you telling us a little bit about yourself.

Jean (01:01):

I'm Jean Trelevan. I'm a very keen historian always have been. , Did a lot of work on local history, , when I was teaching and after I left teaching. And now I, I'm a blue badge guide and so I take people in, on tours, also do a lot of work with the Societe, with Jersey Heritage, with the Geopark. You know, I'm, , it's just been my passion for years. Pro- probably coming, , from my father, my maiden name is La Boutelier, a very Jersey name and it, it engages you in where you're from and what your heritage is.

Perry (01:42):

Absolutely. And so, so today we're gonna be talking about Jersey's Norman heritage. , So can you tell us like, you know, obviously you said, you said you got that Jersey connection in your, in your family. , What is it that interests you about Jersey's Norman heritage and, and what is that specifically?

Jean (01:59):

Well, Jersey, our Norman heritage is actually what sets us apart from everywhere else. You know, we are not English. We are not French. , It, we were, we are Norman. It is not something that's understood really by people living in Jersey today, by people living on either the English mainland or the, the Norman mainland. And I just think it's so important that we tell that, that story. , You know, Victor Hugo said we were 'foreign'. So little bits of France thrown into the sea and picked up by England. And sort of, I think that's how the French probably, , see us. I think they see sort of William the conqueror as somehow, , conquer- conquering us in the same way as he did England. And as I said, I always tell this story. , We used to have bed and breakfast guests and we had an English family once who said to my mother, you know, oh my word, you speak English so well.

Jean (03:09):

You know, when was it we conquered you? You know, and I think, you know, it's sort of hilarious that, but I mean, I don't think that's probably as alien, , a concept as well as one might think. So I really just do want people to understand, you know, and, and it's for everybody who either lives in Jersey, for everybody who visits Jersey. We want them to understand that we are a Norman Island. So when Rollo the Viking was first given his little bit of Normandy around Rouen, by, , the French king, you know, that was the first formation of Normandy. Then gradually it got bigger and bigger. Eventually his son, William Longsword, included the Channel Islands in that kingdom, which was 933. You know, so we have been Norman as long as Normandy was Norman. Every Norman Duke, every Duke of Normandy was our Duke.

Jean (04:12):

And that Duke is now the King of England, you know, through heritage, those Dukes of Normandy through William the Conqueror became kings of England. So, you know, we are the oldest, , place in the King's Empire. You know, we have been part of his kingdom, Dutchy. Since 1933. And it's, it's such a special story. And it explains, you know, why we are so different. And you know, the English influence really wasn't until sort of, it wasn't strong. The strong English influence wasn't really until Battle of Jersey times, you know, end of the 18th century. Yeah. So we had 800 years of almost being Norman, you know? And that's why it is, , so strong. And it's fascinating. It's just, you know, it just adds, you know, to that enjoyment and that, you know, pleasure that we take in where we live.

Perry (05:08):

Yeah. And as you said before we started recording actually, there's so much more to Jersey's Norman heritage than just the conquest of England, which is obviously a huge event and a very well known event, but it's, it's so much more than that. It's not, that's when Jersey, you know, became English in quotation marks, you know? , As you said, there's a really long period of time where we are.

Jean (05:31):

Yeah. The, the, that is what's fascinating. You know, as I said, this word conquest is obviously one that people find, you know, really difficult nowadays. Conquests always involved a defeated, , peoples, you know, which is never fair, but it's what happened. It's how history, , has evolved. And that Norman conquest at which our Duke, our, the Duke of Normandy became England, 1066, a desperately important, , date in our heritage because we at that point became allied with England. You know, prior to that, we had no link with England at all. He remained our Duke of Normandy, , until the 13th century. He remained Duke of Normandy for a long time. But from that moment on, 1066, we were part of the Anglo-Norman

Perry (06:21):

Realm. Yeah. I've got a really interesting thing to kind of inter- interject, bring up our sort of Anglo-Norman history, especially, you know, after the conquest. I know we don't wanna focus too much on the conquest, but, , it really would've opened up those kind of trading between us, between Normandy, between England, which of course would have been happening before, but it, it would have made it a lot easier for it to happen. And perhaps with the whole sort of, , the whole kind of North Sea really trading. , And we are starting to see, , in some of the objects that I get in, some of the archaeological objects I record, we are starting to see sort of Anglo-Danish and Anglo-Saxon objects kind of creeping into the archaeological record from around the period after or just preceding possibly, , the Norman conquest. , And this is one of my favorite objects.

Perry (07:13):

And I'm not sure if you would have seen it. You may have seen it. You have, yeah. Oh,

Jean (07:16):

Absolutely. I've seen it. I've got pictures of it. I've put it in my - This thing, yeah. It features in one of my works I'm doing at the moment.

Perry (07:21):

Oh, really lovely.

Jean (07:22):

Yeah. I mean - Helen gave me the pictures of it. Oh, yeah. So I could use it. Yeah.

Perry (07:25):

It's one of my absolute favorite objects. Can you describe it? Yeah. So, , the object in, in question, , it dates to around the 11th century based on, , numerous excavated examples and kind of art history assessment of it. , Predominantly from, , Northeast England. It's kind of an Anglo-Danish artifact. , And it's called a stirrup strap mount. So it would sit above the, the kind of, , shoe of a, of a horse rider. , It's kind of house-shaped. I don't know how to say it. Maybe we'll put it in the reel or something. But it's got this absolutely lovely, , art on it of two kind of back-to-back beasts or, or dragons or whatever you wanna call them kind of twisted together. , And it, it bears this kind of, , late Viking age, , ringer-rike or Ernest style art. , I love this because my favorite period is the kind of early medieval per - , period.

Perry (08:22):

And it's the first kind of Viking, , style art we have in the island. , But it also shows that connection to, , to the north, to Scandinavia, , to what's happening in, , Anglo-Scandinavia in England. And it's also ended up here. So, you know, how did something like that end up here? Mm-Hmm. Was it bought here by a Norman individual before the whole conquest thing? Or is it possibly loot, brought back from the conquest, you know? Has someone won this from an Anglo-Dane or an Anglo-Saxon and sort of brought it back? , Or is it just part of some later trading network? It's so interesting to me. So we do start to see Jersey is actually involved in this North Sea, England, Scandinavia, Normandy in, in the continent. It's not just a little backwater off of the edge where nothing is happening. We're actively involved in things.

Perry (09:17):

, It's a really interesting thing about islands archeologically, actually.

Jean (09:21):

Yeah. Absolutely. , Fascinating. You know, having been, , a teacher for years and for part of that time I was a primary teacher doing history and, you know, we have all these topics that they do, which, you know, like Henry VIII's wives and Anglo-Saxons and - Yeah. These topics which, you know, just don't have this great, , relevance, , in the islands. So in terms of the Anglo-Saxon realm, we were remote that, but Anglo - the Anglos and the Saxons were only two of the invaders. You know, our invaders were the Franks. So in that eighth... Well, in fact, no, it goes back to the sixth, you know, Helier, the time of St Helier. So the sixth, from the sixth century onwards, we were very much a part of that Frankish kingdom. You know, it, first of all, they were called the Merovingans, then they were called the Carolinians.

Jean (10:13):

You know, we even had an archbishop, you know, in the sixth century we had an arch bishop of Rouen exiled to Jersey for six years. You know, we were not a backwater. He would not have lived in a back... We had an Abbey at, well, the Abbey, the Abbey came later. We had a monastery at that time where he lived. So what is so fascinating is that no Anglo-Saxon heritage - Yeah. Prior to the invasion, we wouldn't have experienced much. It was Frankish, you know? And that's, that's another story that we really need to understand, you know, before, you know, sort of moving into the Normans. Yeah. That, that stirrup I've always found particularly fascinating because the artwork you said is Saxon. It is Anglo-Saxon.

Perry (10:57):

It's Anglo-Danish.

Jean (10:59):

Anglo-Danis. Yeah. Right. That -

Perry (11:00):

You, you find them in vast amounts in kind of Anglo-Danish areas in England, but you do find them the same things in Scandinavia too. So it's kind of in that Anglo-Danish almost kind of empire, you know, that North Sea trading network. Yeah.

Jean (11:16):

- 'Cause One sort of understood that, I mean, I'm not 100% on this, that, you know, horses - Yeah. Were very much a feature of the Normans. Was that right? And William, you know, the Harold didn't have... Did he have so many horses? The use

Perry (11:30):

Of, the use of horses in battle was certainly a kind of predominantly a Norman thing. A Norman, yeah. , Though, you know, the, the kind of Anglo-Saxons and, and, and other peoples did have their kind of ponies that would've been - Yeah. Really nicely decked out in, in all sorts.

Jean (11:46):

Yeah, yeah. So I, I've, I've always found that quite fascinating, you know, the, the horse, because, you know, that is something that we sort of associate with the Normans. Obviously they had horses before that. Yeah. So, you know, who used that stirrup is just, - Well, that is

Perry (11:58):

Exactly so interesting to think that someone here, - Yeah. Likely had a, a war horse or a very nice horse that they were decking out in this specific, , gear, you know? And that thing, obviously in the picture now, it looks all kind of a bit dull because of the patina, but that would've been the shining bronze. And the art may have been picked out, which you find in other examples. So it would have been a really high status object. , And there, and there's other objects sort of turning up from around that period. , We've got these wonderful, broaches showing up from around the, the 10th to 11th centuries as well. So, , you are starting to see our connection with the continent and possibly Britain as well. These disc broaches, , specifically, there's a hoard of, , of broaches found in London called the Cheap Side Hoard, which many types of similar broaches are found.

Perry (12:51):

, So yeah, we're starting to get these connections with England, , but also, also the continent and, you know, they may have gone into the continent and then back to Jersey. These were very complex trade networks. , So that's a point I really want to get across to people is that people like to think of Jersey as nothing ever happened until recently, but it's, you know, archeologically throughout all of the fines I've been recording, it's showing that there's so much trade coming through. There's clearly a population here, and there's clearly a population here that are, , that are kind of invested and involved in the kind of fashion trends that are going on, on the continent, you know? It's, it's, , don't think of Jersey as just a sort of desert island, you know?

Jean (13:38):

Well, we have the evidence, don't we, right? Yeah. From Neolithic times onwards, we have hand, we have axes where the stone has come from Switzerland, you know? Yeah. We have, so we've been trading, you know, we have all the pottery then come the Bronze Age, you know, we've absolutely had, we've had boats, you know, coming from the kelts, , traveling the seaways from Ireland, from Southwest England. Yeah, I think, you know, and then the Romans, , Guernsey with its, the nature of Guernsey has this deeper harbor and the tides, the tidal flow heads that way. They were more on the tidal roots or certainly on the sea roots of the Romans, but, you know, the islands - Even,

Perry (14:17):

Even that's kind of changing - Yeah. With the recent archaeology. I must talk to you and we're not on air and just chat to you about it, but, - <laugh>

Jean (14:24):

Absolutely. I've recorded

Perry (14:26):

Hundreds of Roman coins. We've got high status jewellery. Fantastic. , We've got lots of Roman stuff coming

Jean (14:32):

Up. That I haven't heard much about. Only Mercury statue and these coins and things. Oh,

Perry (14:37):

We've had even more figurines as well. But I don't wanna take us away from normally so

Jean (14:41):

Much. No, no, no. But I mean, no, but I mean, but we have been trading. We have been trading from the arrival of the earliest people. Absolutely. I mean, gosh, we have gold torque. I mean, you know, this was not a backwater.

Perry (14:55):

No, absolutely not. No. , And sort of bringing it back to Normandy again and bringing our connection to the continent back. But as you said, there was pri-tax artists in the 6th century who was exiled here. Mm-Hmm. , But there's a little bit of a kind of thing about exiled archbishops because we have an arch bishop of Rouen in the 11th century, which was Morgia or Malga. Yeah. Right. And, and, and he fell out with William who was gonna be the conqueror. Yeah. , And he was sent to the Channel Islands according to, , according to Wais, who's a jerseyman. Says he crossed over to the Cotton Tan and came to the aisles of the Cotton Tan. He lived there and settled there into the end. Of the life he lived there, of the woman Gisler whom he loved, and of the children he fathered on the island where he lived.

Perry (15:43):

We're able to relate a great deal, but this is not our concern. , And he actually mentions in here that he lived in both islands. And he travelled from one to the other, according to waste. Whenever it pleased him, he says, , Margaret dwelt on the islands often moving from one to the other when he wished to do so, and it pleased him. He went hither and tither. And that's so interesting. Again, like the bishop hundreds of years before him. Mm-Hmm. , It's kind of a place for religious exiles, possibly. , And also one thing that really interests me about that is the first mention I'm aware of, of a named woman from the Channel Islands. , And it really annoys me that he specifically says, "We can say lots about them, but we're just not going to because it's not the point right now." Which is a real shame.

Perry (16:31):

, So yeah, Jersey does seem to be this, this kind of place for people to be sent. , There must have been a decent population here for that even to be an option. , And another thing that interests me about Gisler's name is that it's a Germanic name. It's, it's a Norse name. So at that point, in around 1035, this would have been, , clearly Norman culture has, , in, you know, infiltrate the island, taken hold of the island. And we've got Germanic names and we've got place names. Obviously, Jersey's name went from Angia at one point to Jersey, which is a Germanic name, presumably with either the pre-Norman Viking lot or the Norman lot. , Just a really interesting, really interesting time period and clearly a time where Jersey's history, archaeology, culture was overhauled massively. Mm.

Jean (17:27):

Yes. The, , I mean, the pla - you come into the, the language. I mean, the place names is obviously a particularly fascinating one. And the place names are very much Norse. So they are, you know, so when I say the place names, the place names, the coastal place names are very much Norse, so very much Viking. You know, the, the Jersey language area, you know, is a combination of Frankish and Norse. And we have, you know, a great deal of Norse, , in our language. And the fact there's so many around the coast, I mean, that is what is telling you that these Vikings who went on to become Normans, , were certainly traveling, , all around, all around our shores. And as you said, the islands themselves, the E on the end of the island is a Norse, , Suffolk for islands, you know?

Jean (18:17):

So you have Jersey Alderney. You know, they're all these, , Norman Islands. But to go back to your point about, , the exiles, you know, that is, you know, it's a really sort of interesting historical feature. You know, if you want to exile someone, you know, and I certainly know about Pridextack and Moje. They, , you know, they, the kings at the time did not want them to have anything to do, , with the local people. They wanted them removed. And, you know, these islands, we were big enough and, you know, to be able to house them, to be able to look after them. I mean, exactly the same, you know, happened in the Civil War. You know, you had, , Charles, you know, they were, they exiled. I mean, they, I think the round is, you know, they exiled William Prin, you know, to Gorey Castle because they thought, you know, they tried him in England first, they tried him in the Welsh castles.

Jean (19:14):

But his, his friends keep coming to visit him and bringing him food. So they though, right, we'll send you to, to Jersey. You know, you'll be away from everybody. , So that, you know, it's not a, you know, it, it is a feature of society. If you want to exile someone, you try and put them where they can't be reached. I mean, isn't, probably Napoleon is probably the most famous by then. Yeah. You had to move them miles away if you wanted them to be inaccessible. Otherwise, , you know, people could reach them. So, you know, this is what, what us islands are, you know? Yeah. It's a feature of islands, I think.

Perry (19:49):

And, and whilst we say Jersey's very, was very connected, and it clearly was, , it also, you know, is, is definitely worth mentioning it was quite difficult to get off and on at certain times of the year. Mm-Hmm. , In storms, it could be quite difficult. And there's, and there's quite a famous story about some quite famous people getting stuck here. Yeah.

Jean (20:07):

Yes. Th- this is one of the things that, , again, it, it's a really important story that we need to know. You know, we had those boats that you see on the Bayeux Tapestry. You know, we had them in Jersey 30 years - Wow. Earlier. Yeah. And we don't know. We just know it was a large number of ships. This is all recorded in the deeds of the Normans - I guess William in the deeds of the Norman Dukes. You know, and we know, , you know, as I said, the link with the link between England and Normandy is a very, very, , old one. , Most, we know about Queen Emma, you know, Queen Emma who married into two English, , royal families, you know? And so she was the sister of the Duke of Normandy. So, you know, very Norman. And, and she probably was the first one.

Jean (20:56):

She actually brought a Norman bishop to England with her. So she really brought Norman culture to England before, , William did. And, and her story is so important. So she had, , two sons, Alfred and Edward, with Ethelred. But of course, when the Danes conquered when, , it was such a Spain and then Cnut, when they conquered, , Alfred and... Well, first of all, sorry, when Spain conquered, Emma fled to Normandy and Etherid, they all fled the two boys and the King and Queen. , Then eventually, , the King and Queen went back. The Queen marries K - , King Cnut, but the boys stay in Normandy. So, you know, Edward the Confessor, who was this Edward, this young, the young son of Queen Emma, , you know, he actually spent, I think it's 30 or 40 years of his adolescence, of his childhood in Normandy.

Jean (21:57):

He was more Norman, , than, than English. So at one point, , when, , Queen Emma was on the phone, Duke Robert decided he, his, these, his nephews, Alfred and Edward, needed to be taken back to England. You know, they needed to get their rightful po- position as heirs, , to the throne of England. So he, it says he collected this group of ships. He set off or he set off from Fekon and, you know, heading for, , England. But as was the case then, as was the case right through to the 19th century, you could only go in the direction that the winds took you. And unfortunately, he set off into the channel. Almighty easterly wind, , blew up. And he got blown all the way around the and landed in Jersey. I mean, what the people at Gorey, , it wasn't a castle there in those days.

Jean (22:54):

What they thought as all these, , ships came down. And so they did manage, , we don't know, he doesn't say where they landed, but it - Right. But see, most likely it was Grouville Bay, probably quite a nice landing bay. And we, we know they were there for quite some time. He, you know, they were as angry as anything. And he was so cross he hadn't invaded England. He had this great plan to invite, invade Brittany, but fortunately the bishop came in and said, "No, no, no, no. We need to make peace here." And he, in the end, they went back home. But, you know, that's just a rather lovely feature. And William, I think we worked out, he was about four at the time, you know? Yeah. So he would've known that his dad had gone off with his two uncles. Yeah. And they would've come back again.

Jean (23:37):

Who knows? Perhaps it inspired, you know? He certainly knew about Jersey. You know, he... William, before the Battle of Hastings, before in the 1030s, I think, he was giving, , property churches in Jersey to his Abbeys. You know, he knew all about Jersey. It was very much on his radar. , You know, and it was a wealthy island. It had, it had land, it had churches, it had things, tithes, you know, there were people living here because the tithes, the money that the people living in the island used to give to the church, that was where the Abbeys got their money from. And certainly, William was not slow in, , linking us very much to his, , Norman Abbeys. No, it's wonderful story, that one - Yeah. Of these boats. And I just l - they were, they were Viking boats. I mean, they've been Viking boats since Rollo's time.

Jean (24:26):

So they were most definitely only 30 years before the tapestry. Yeah. We had those boats if - That's incredible. Only someone had cameras in those

Perry (24:33):

Days. I know.

Jean (24:34):

Or if they had drawn them or something. Yeah. Or something. Yeah. It would've

Perry (24:36):

Been so

Jean (24:37):

Lovely to have a record of that. That would be a good tapestry.

Perry (24:40):

Yeah. I mean, hey, perhaps that's when this stirrup strap mount ended up in the island, you know? Who knows? Who knows? , You know, you can only imagine. You can only - Yeah. Imagine stories, can't you? But one of my favorite things about that story, well, favorites are a bit grizzly. But, , after they got stuck here for a certain amount of time, they decided, "Well, we can't waste the raiding season. We've got all these guys here. We're right next to Brittany." So they went, , they decided to go and send a force to attack the lands of Allen III, I believe it was in Britney.

Jean (25:11):

Duke of Brittany.

Perry (25:12):

, So clearly, you know, you didn't wanna waste, you've got a bunch of men here. They're all waiting for a fight. They're waiting for some loop. You can't just not do anything with them. , And that kinda brings me onto the important place of Jersey between Brittany and Normandy. It's almost an extension of those Breton Norman marches. , Before, you know, it was Norman, what exactly was it like here? And we're not entirely sure what language was spoken, what possibly the culture was. Now, one of the earliest mentions of a named person in Jersey was someone called Anwareth. Mm-Hmm. , So Charlemagne had sent, , one of his favorite bishops, Gervolt, to Jersey. , Doesn't say why. , The culture of the island is not necessarily certain that we may have been under the control of the Carolinians of Charlemagne. Mm-Hmm. What does that necessarily mean about the culture here?

Perry (26:10):

So we know, , when Charlemagne in around 804 sent, , Bishop Gerville to Abort Gervald. Mm-Hmm. , The, the leader of the island was, , someone called Anwareth. And it specifically mentions that he was, , Jens Britonum. So whether that means, , Breton as in, in France, man was now France, or Bret - or British as in a recent, a recent person from Brin, we can't exactly be sure. , But obviously hundreds of years before that, in the fall of the Western Roman Empire, , there were so many immigrants from, , Southwestern Britain coming into Brittany and very, very likely they would have had to have passed Jersey in order to get there. , So we had, you know, the, the Cornish and the Welsh, , and the Danoni were coming in. So, you know, perhaps was the island culturally Breton for a long time? , It's not really certain.

Perry (27:09):

, We just know that once Jersey had become annexed into Normandy that very quickly the name changes and perhaps the, perhaps the power structures are taken over by Norman individuals. , And the island becomes very Norman.

Jean (27:24):

I mean, before the 10th century so that, I mean, we didn't have any... Norman didn't exist before the 10th century because the Norman is the Vikings. That is Rollo. So there wasn't anything such as a Norman. Yeah. But, you know, we, so we simply had these, we had these Frankish links. Well, I mean, you know, prior to that, as I said, we had the Romans, the Iron Age. And this brittle culture was obviously developing. , You know, I don't think we had to be one or the other. No. I really don't. You know, and th- those la - the languages are absolutely fascinating. , You know, because languages evolve, you know, they evolve so much, you know. And as I said, so our na - and, and our native language area, I mean, to me, that is one of the, it's one of the main features of this Norman heritage.

Jean (28:13):

It is, you know, Jerie is unique to us. I mean, yes, these Norman languages are, are throughout Normandy. William the Conqueror spoke a Norman language, which would have been very similar to the one we spoke, , in the 11th century, that Norman language. He took that Norman language to England where it adopted some English words, I think, and it became Anglo-Norman. And our famous, , Roman de Rouen by was, I understand is written in the Anglo-Norman language, because that was the language that the court of, , England understood and they carried on. It was until roughly 1400. That was a really important language. Now, so we had, , you know, our, our Norman language then we picked up the Frankish, we added a lot of Norse to it to develop Amgerier. Obviously you've also got, there is a Norman version. Gullo is the Norman version spoken in Brittany as well as Baton, which is the Celtic language, which is very like Cornish.

Jean (29:22):

So, so without doubt, we were having influences. We were influenced by all of them, , through trade. You know, we know about this trade, but also I think through the church. I mean, you can't, you know, from, as I said, about the time of Helier, the Meravengens and St. Sampson, St. Mugluar, St. Markuf, you can't underestimate the power - Yeah. That churches have had from then right the way through. And, you know, St. Samson of Doll, you know, he was given the Channel Islands, you know? Doll itself, it's part was Norman. It was sort of Britain. It's very much in the marches. It was very much in between, but Doll itself, you know, was a power of its own. And as you say, you know, we were, until the Norman take - Yeah. The Norman arrival, we must have been this hub, this, , mixing, you know, this cultural mix, I think.

Jean (30:17):

Yeah.

Perry (30:18):

I think may, I also wonder if in the, in the kind of absolute destruction of the, of the Viking age where Brittany was completely just, you know, effectively demolished, all the power structures were kind of undermined, , lots of Bretons were fleeing sort of southwards into, in, more into France. , Whether, you know, by, , 933, if it would be quite easy for a sort of, a bunch of Norman settlers to come in because maybe there wasn't a huge amount of people left, maybe we were depopulated, -

Jean (30:52):

Because the Vikings had caused so much damage, yes. Yes. I mean, we, we know they, we know they destroyed Dole, we know they destroyed Kotos, we know they, , Tapmosa Michelle. So y- yes, there was - Yeah. You know, there was this, , , no, there's evidence now that I don't, there was no such thing, I think it was depopulation, but certainly we were ready, , to be built up again. Yeah. You know, and the Normans, and the Normans, , did that. I mean, let's face it, , Rollo was only given Normandy by the King of France to protect that territory - Yeah. From further Viking invasion. Yeah. And that's what actually happened, , throughout. Yeah. And, , you know, so, so you, you, as a king, he, he didn't give Normandy up. Normandy was still, , had allegiance to the King of France. It was a Dutchy, it had a Duke, but it owed allegiance to the King of France.

Jean (31:44):

Yeah. And, and our Dukes, , looked after it and protected it from Viking invasion. Yeah. And we know, I think we know in Jersey, it was, , St. Magruire. I mean, Sark was probably the biggest monastery, , in the Channel Islands in those days. Highly likely that was ata - attacked. And the monastery is. Yeah. The, the monastery on the island

Perry (32:06):

Wasn't attacked, but

Jean (32:07):

Probably - Yeah. Yeah, even earlier. Yeah. Mm-Mm.

Perry (32:10):

Yeah, but they, they would've been prime targets. , I mean, Wace says, Wace is writing, you know, like a hundred, couple hundred years later. Mm-Hmm. But he's a very good historian for his time. Mm-Hmm. , And he says that all of the Channel Islands, , Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, Sark, , all had ruins left on them, , by Viking attacks specifically from Hastein and, , Bjorn- Bjorn. Bjorn Ironside. Mm-Hmm. , Who's quite famous Viking and you watch the TV shows. , So yeah, there, there's this sort of historical evidence. Again, it's quite a bit later, but it, it's almost more ridiculous for me to imagine that Jersey would have been left, actually. Mm-Hmm. It's right in between, , you know, , Normandy and Brittany.

Jean (32:55):

Yeah. So it would have been, would have been attacked, but, you know, it, it, but it certainly wouldn't have been a key place to attack. Yeah. They were looking for wealth. Yeah. You know, that was why. They went to the, the monasteries, the Abbeys, you know, the things that had, , precious metals and such like that's why, you know, it was the, the river and they were these river valleys. You know, Jersey was pretty small. Yes, it would have been perhaps ransacked on your way through. Yeah. , Though it, it, it didn't have the same appeal, I don't think, as these large monasteries in Normandy, , and Brittany had. Yeah.

Perry (33:27):

There is some, there are some interesting, only small amounts at the moment of there does seem to be a very slight boom in objects showing up from around that period. Yeah. , We're getting some really nice Carolinian coins. We get a little boom of Carolinian coinage and not much before. Mm-Hmm. And not much after for a long time. And we've got some very, very nice, , kind of religious, , belt plates, , kind of adornments showing up. Mm-Hmm. Now, is, is that, is there a little boom of things being buried or lost or is this stuff Viking loot in itself? Or is there maybe... There, there's lots of... I could go on for ages about all the different reasons that we might be getting a little boost of, of material culture in the island from that period. But there's certainly stu - basically, there's certainly stuff going on in Jersey around that time period leading up to when it becomes Norman.

Mel (34:23):

Are you a Jersey Heritage member? If not, head to our website and sign up today. Your membership unlocks the doors to all of our sites, offers special discounts and benefits. But above all else, it supports the important work that Jersey Heritage does to preserve and share our rich island story. So Jean, let's talk a little bit about family names around the Norman kind of era. So let's, let's stuck, let's get stuck into that. Let's get stuck

Jean (34:49):

Into those. Well, I mean, so many of the, , the Jersey names are Norman names. In fact, and so in, in WAS itself are the names of all the people who, , fought at the Battle of Hastings and other things. The only, you know, family that we can directly, , say they were a Jersey, well, a Jersey family or became a Jersey family are the decatres. Orfree. Orfrey and Moje Decart are mentioned as participating at the Battle of Hastings. But there are a lot of other Jersey names there. , We're not saying they fought, but they are families. They are Norman families that possibly came to the island later because as we know, following the battle, you know, one of the things William did was actually divvy up his new empire, his new lands and his existing lands to give to the people, , who had supported him.

Jean (35:42):

So in, so in Jersey, you know, the- these names, we've got a lot of names that are duh. Now the duh names from, usually mean they come from somewhere, , in Normandy, you know, like De Gruchy, De La Mar, De La Hey, you know, all these are, , places in Normandy. They have other meanings as well, but the duh usually means that, , that's where they came from. We have, , names Lu something, which usually means a job or, , a characteristic. I mean, obviously I'm quite, my, my name, Le Boutilier, it, it means, , they were probably a, , a wine taster, a butler, you know, but basically someone who ensured that the, the knight, , you know, didn't get poisoned or the king didn't, , get poisoned. There are, you know, <foreign> in, in waste, you know, because obviously was a very important person and he had a.

Jean (36:43):

, And so, so, and then you, you get Labra, you know, somebody the brown person, you know, leb - libra, you get, , you get other names that refer to, , , what I a - I said people's, people's jobs, , people's characteristics, , I think so many of them look, you, you also get names that show where people have come from. I mean, so Langlois is the English person, Le Gallais, - From Wales. From Wales, and - Galichan, Spain. Galichan, yes. Or from Gal - You know, you get all sort, you get all sorts of names that show, , and then of course you get Norman. <Laugh> Yeah. The Normans, as we, you know, Norman is still, you know, a lot of these names, , still exist. So in, family names are an utterly fascinating, , topic. And I mean, some of our Norman names in Jersey actually came to Jersey much more recently.

Jean (37:43):

They were Normans in England, English Norman families who, , have come over here. So these Normans have been spreading around. One of the most wonderful ones, I think, is Walt Disney. I mean, he was Walt Disiny, D-apostrophe, Disini from Isini. He was a, he was a Norman family. Oh wow. But it changed it to Disney because that was, , so much easier. , I know last year I had this, , the family, the Poingdestre family, , from America over, they were coming over to investigate their roots, you know, and they obviously, they were poi-dest, you know, the right-fisted person, the poing-destre. You, you know, they were saying, you know, "Please, can you pronounce it poindetch?" I said, "Well, actually, in Jersey, we don't call it poindetch. We call it poin- poinjester." I said, "In Jerie, you call it podex. In America, you call it poindexter." Yeah, a bit like poindester.

Jean (38:41):

Yeah. But poindexter is easy to spell, P-O-I-N-D-E-X, you know, point, you know, Poingdestre with a D-G and all that. And it is very difficult. So names, , are, are changing, , all the time. And as I said, you just know it's a Norman name. You do not know, obviously, the exact origins. There are Norman names all over, , England, but, you know, we have a, a lot of them over here and, you know, it, again, it's a key part of our heritage.

Perry (39:10):

And, and Norman's coming into Jersey even much later in the, you know, the 17th, 18th, 19th centuries, which just goes to show our connection. Mm-Hmm.

Jean (39:19):

See, that's the thing. We are, you know, we obviously, because of which we've been talking about quite a bit, you know, people come to Jersey from all over. All over. You know, and we are now, you know, we have people from so many different places, , all over the world, especially all over Europe. But the one thing they can all share is this Norman heritage - you know, once you, if you come to our Norman Island, it's now your heritage. If you live here, you know, it is your heritage. And we just hope that, you know, in promoting this 2027, it's something that people will start to, , think about and, and enjoy. Really enjoy, I hope.

Mel (39:52):

Absolutely. Absolutely, yeah. We also know that parish churches played a big role in the community at the time. So could you share a little bit about how they come into play?

Jean (40:00):

Right. Well, we, we do go back to the Carolinians and the Meravengens, you know, you know, and St Helier, you know, Jersey has been, well, it's probably been Christian since Roman times. I mean, Constantine, you know, was the sort of first Chri - the, , Christian. We certainly had these Roman, , these Christian, , hermits who, who, who came, , taught Christianity to the people. Chapels we know were established all over the island. We know under the Meravengian times there were chapels. I said there were monasteries, , including like, for example, St. Mary. I mean, the full name of St. Mary's Parish is St. Mary of the Burnt Monastery. You know, we think that could well be one of the ones attacked by, , , attacked by Vikings. But certainly, , you know, come the Carolingians, which were that much more organized and certainly in the Norman times it was the 12 parishes were established whereby one of those chapels, , was then rebuilt.

Jean (41:01):

We think they were mainly rebuilt in the 11th century. So the oldest stonework, you know, they may have been wooden buildings before that. But once you created a parish church, then you had an administration. And it wasn't just Christian min- ministration. These churches were very much secular administration. So once you had that parish church, everybody within that parish then had to pay their dues. They had to attend the church, but they had to pay their dues, , to the church. So this was certainly established in the, the Frankish period and really formalized in the Norman period. And that was when, , they were building Abbeys and all over Normandy. And you needed to make sure those Abbeys had money, you know, because the Abbeys couldn't survive without money. And so the Duke would be finding churches everywhere in land and fiefs and, and giving them, , to the Abbeys.

Jean (41:57):

There's this one rather, , special sort of story. So Jersey in the 12th century had an Abbey, , established by William, William Fitzhamman or Guillaume Fihamel. , And, you know, it, it, and he was quite wealthy. He gave it, he gave it lots of, , wealth. It was an Augustinian, , the Augustinian org - order of mo- monks. And there was also an Augustinian Abbey near Sherburg called the Abbey of the Vow. And that one had been established by Empress Matilda, , very important lady. , And she made a vow that if her boat journey ended, ended successfully, because her boat journeys were, took your life in your hands going in boats in those days, , she would establish an Abbey. So she established her Abbey. William Fitzherbert established his Abby. And lo and behold, you know, the Jersey Abbey was actually a lot more wealthy than Matilda's.

Jean (42:54):

She established the Abbey, but not a lot of funds to go with it. So that was one of the reasons why our Abbey was demoted to a priory. So as the income from that Abbey could then, , go to the, the Sherburg one. It's so interconnected. It is absolutely fascinating. But, you know, every one of our 12 parish churches was part of the Norman, , Abbey system. We were under the Diocese of Kutos and, you know, we, so we owed certain things to the bishop. And, you know, each parish church gave money to different Abbeys throughout Normandy. Really - Wow. Fascinating story. So where would our Abbey in Jersey have been located? Where was it? Where was it? On where Elizabeth Castle is. It was. St Helier came as a little, as a monk in the sixth century. He was killed and they established we think a monastery on the island that, that island, you know, he lived on the rock, but on the island next door, there was quite a lot of space there.

Jean (43:56):

So we think the monastery was established there, destroyed by Saxon, , pirates and probably by, by Vikings. And then come the, , you know, so that, and then the Abbey Church was, there was an Abbey Church was there as well. And come, what was it? 1600? Yeah, roundabout just before 1600, wasn't it? When we built Elizabeth Castle, that was the point at which, , all, , the wealth of Abbeys had really either been taken by the king or elsewhere. Our Abbey was very special. When, , King K - when the Kings of England took away all the wealth of what were called the alien priorries, a lot of buildings, churches in England were owned by French Abbeys. France was the enemy. And obviously, you know, King Henry, or it was King Edward, it was before Henry, you know, would get, it, it was just wrong. We should not be giving our money to an enemy power.

Jean (44:55):

So he took away, it was called the Confiscation of the Lands of the Alien Prairies. Now, what was fascinating was that Centelia Abbey was not owned by an alien prior because by that point, the Abbey of the Vow had already been destroyed. So we were independent. So the possessions of St Helier Abbey were never, they tried, the king tried to take them, but he didn't, , he didn't succeed. You know, so that one stayed, you know, until obviously the, , reformation, until the, the Catholic, , system, , , was, was removed. So that Abbey and then the stones, we don't know. I mean, the story says that I know, , John Carter's been looking into this. Some of the stones of the Abbey were used in the building of the castle, haven't found very many, I gather. I think I've read somewhere that, , the De Carterets used some of, might have used some in building their manner because, you know, that was a time at which, , much building was going on.

Jean (45:51):

But there are, there are stones from that Abbey. Yeah.

Perry (45:55):

There's, there's lots of, there's lots of carved stonework that's, that is around, which we can assume or it, it very possibly could have came from there, but unfortunately some of it is just not provenanced. , It's just kind of in places and you go, "That looks like medieval stone carving of the type you would see in a building

Jean (46:13):

Like that. " If one looks... Yeah. I mean, obviously the geologists who can, you know, certain geologists can actually ascertain the origin - Of the stone. If it's called stone, you know? Yeah. And knowing where that stone came from, you know, which, which is, , quite, was quite interesting. So, you know, you cannot, again, you cannot underestimate the pow - the, the power that the church structure, , had on the island. And as I said - Yeah, it was very influential. And it's not just church. It was administration. I mean, all parish meetings were held in churches. I haven't got my date here. When did they insist on parish halls? I mean, 19th, some- sometime in the 19th century, you know, parish halls, , had to be... Prior to that, if you were, if you wanted to go to a, if you wanted to hear about the business of your chur - o- o- of your parish, you had to go to church and you had to hear it, you had to hear it there.

Jean (47:01):

And if you were excommunicated from the church -

Mel (47:04):

That's it, your - That's it. You banished

Jean (47:06):

From the community. And so you couldn't participate in, , parish events, you know? Yeah. It's a, you know, it's a, a wonderful... And it was, again, it was established in this era, this early medieval era, , that we're talking about. So you

Mel (47:21):

Also, earlier, , Jean, you talked about the law.

Jean (47:24):

Mm-Hmm. So the Normans were renowned for their laws. I mean, the justice, , that they conducted first. And Norman law, I mean, customary law, , in other words, , it became law because this is what happened. You know, originally laws weren't written, written down. So we have these, , books called Le Cron Coutumie, the great customary law, and the Nouvel Coutoumie, the new, , customary law. So the Normans established a very strong, just and fair, you know, legal, , legal system. Now, when obviously Jersey, when we were no longer part of Normandy, when we gave up, , being Norman, well, in 1204, that was when the rest of Normandy became French. The Channel Islands obviously did actually become French at that point as well, but King John straight away, , sent a fleet or Eustis, the monkey arranged for the islands to be taken back again.

Jean (48:32):

So I think in between 1204 and about 1216, , you know, there was a lot of, it was pretty unpleasant, I think, living in Jersey in those days. Yeah. But eventually, it was, we were definitely English, but we retained the Norman customary laws. And because they're customary laws, they evolve. Laws evolve all the time. As you have a new case that's tried in the court, you, the laws, , evolve. And as you probably know, it wasn't until 1771 that we had this, this codification. , We had, , people wrote treatises on the, the customary laws. And then in 17 - 71, the laws were codified. , And because laws change, but there are still, you know, there are still vestiges of Norman law in Jersey, especially when it comes to property and land. You know, the, the, the origins of the law are quite clearly Norman.

Jean (49:25):

But you know, laws, laws have to evolve with society. And, you know, as things that used to happen and were acceptable are no longer acceptable, you then have to make laws. So our laws have changed all the time, but we still have this basic Norman law, unlike in France, where Napoleon, you know, repealed all the laws and the code Napoleon, , came in. So the whole of France now operates according to the code Napoleon. You were still, we still had that original system evolving to meet our needs. And it's still happening now. England passes laws. We either accept those... We, we have to agree to accept those laws. They, they're not our laws until we say, yes, you know, that is our law. We want that one. Or we modify it slightly. It's a fascina - it's a fascinating situation that we are in.

Jean (50:19):

It's an interesting

Mel (50:20):

Topic. Yeah, absolutely. <Laugh> Jean, you're writing a book that you're going to be releasing this year.

Jean (50:27):

Yeah. Oh, it's, well, it's written. It's finished. We're, we're just... I received back another draft yesterday. We're ju - we're just going through the draft, the, , design stages, just checking that everything, the right pictures, you know, are giving the right message and, you know, just checking the text. So yes, it's virtually finished. I'm hoping it's gonna be out by the end of the month, end of February. Wow. That's the aim.

Mel (50:49):

And is the aim of the book as a way of celebrating the 2027? Very

Jean (50:54):

Much. I mean, I, you know, I came up with this book idea about two or three. As soon as the 2027 celebrations were mentioned, I said, "Right. Well, you know, people do not understand, you know, it's not generally known what our Norman history is. " So I just felt I wanted to write something that people could, you know, discover the, so it's the his - the first half of the book is the history, why we are Norman and why we now have a King of England and not a Duke of Normandy. So it's the history. And then the second half is all about our culture and every aspect of our culture and the Norman, , elements of it. So yes, it's, it's just very much to inform, you know, ge- geared to the general public, secondary school, , you know, age children. Yeah. It's not a children's book as such, but it's got lots of pictures, lots of, - But

Mel (51:43):

It's

Jean (51:44):

Accessible. Very, yeah. It's meant to be an accessible book that would appeal to most people and, and hopefully, , Norman visitors. 'Cause, You know, as part of these Norman celebrations, , the Nor- Normandy region is hoping there is going to be a movement of peoples to and from the various Norman regions, you know, England, , Ireland, Sicily, and obviously the Channel Islands are a huge element in this, you know? So we're hoping that we will get a lot of Norman visitors next year. And the thing about book is that we produced it. It's a bilingual book. So, you know, one page is in English and the other page is in Jerry A.

Mel (52:24):

Oh, brilliant.

Jean (52:25):

Well, it ha - it had to be. I mean, Jerriaise is the Norman language. Absolutely. That is the language that, that our, , our history, , comes from. And again, it's not French, but one assumes that the French people through the Jerriaise will have a bit of accept - a bit more accessibility. Yeah. , That way.

Perry (52:42):

I know. I'm very excited. I think that's gonna be really interesting.

Mel (52:44):

Yeah, I can't wait to read

Perry (52:45):

It. A copy. I know for a fact there's people in Normandy who are really interested in the Channel Islands, really interested in, in Jerry. So it'd be great to be able to reach out and form more connections across the channel.

Jean (52:58):

It's just so wonderful to have this opportunity. You know, every now and then something happens, you know, and you really sh- share it. I mean, wait, obviously, you know, we've had, we have the occupation celebrations, you know, as and when there's a special, , event. I mean, but if, for Jersey Heritage, it was, you know, 1204, you know, 2000 - 2004. That was a huge - It was

Mel (53:18):

A big

Jean (53:19):

Year. , Celebration for the, the island, you know, of really our links with the crown. You know, that was when we, we suddenly had a king in, in, in, in... Well, it wasn't quite then actually, but yeah. So, I mean, yeah and, and 20, , we're hoping, you know, 2027 is gonna be another of these key, , moments when everybody has a chance to enjoy, learn, discover.

Mel (53:43):

Thank you so much for joining us today, Jean. You are a fountain of knowledge and so enthusiastic. We've learned a lot from you

Jean (53:49):

Today. I've been at it for a very long time, which is why you just, when you, when you're interested, you just absorb that

Mel (53:54):

You - Yeah, you're like a sponge. You just

Jean (53:56):

Absorb information.

Mel (53:57):

Yeah. No, well thank you so much for giving your time to us today. We, , look forward to reading your book. If you enjoy today's episode, don't forget to click on the subscribe button for more.