Bouan Noué! A Community Christmas

In this Christmas special we will be sharing our Jèrriais roots, which explore festive Jersey traditions, to how Christmas is celebrated by our vibrant multicultural community today.  

We want to give special thanks to our fantastic guest speakers; Tracy from Jersey Heritage, Lesley Katsande, Alex Silva, Marcel Bucur & Anna Jolda 

A very special thank you also goes out to our listeners! We have loved bringing you the Small Island, Big Story sessions this year and look forward to sharing more stories with you in 2025! Don’t forget to subscribe!

Support Jersey Heritage in 2025 by becoming a Member or if you have time, consider volunteering!  Find out more here.

Transcript

Perry (00:00:02):
Welcome to the Jersey Heritage Podcast,
Mel (00:00:05):
The Small Island Big Story sessions.
Perry (00:00:08):
You are listening to Mel & Perry. In today's episode, we talk all things Christmas from our roots exploring Jersey traditions to how Christmas is celebrated by our multicultural community. Today, stay tuned for our very special community Christmas.

Ss we've got Tracy with us today. She's our Jerrias awareness officer. She works with us here. And we're gonna be talking today about the Jersey aspect, the traditional jersey or the jerry aspect of Christmas. So what can you tell us about a, a more traditional jersey Christmas and how it differs maybe from our more British influenced Christmas traditions?
Tracy (00:00:52):
Okay, so a lot of the time now you've think of Christmas as giving out presents, putting up the Christmas tree and so on, but those tend to come from different cultures. And that wasn't how Jersey celebrated Christmas previously. So at one time we had the Calvinists here who didn't like a party particularly. So for a while everything was a bit dour. Then when Christmas did start coming back, it became a set of celebrations from December the 18th to January the sixth. So it was a whole celebration during long winter nights, mostly out in the country. It wasn't so much about giving, there was a custom that children used screw around, they used to say, which meant basically give me something <laugh>. Yeah, yeah. It's a bit like trick or treat without the trick. They tend to try and go round the wealthier looking neighbors to, so they get a better little treat, but it was really about getting a piece of cake.
Tracy (00:01:50):
If they had didn't have any cake, they'd give them whatever leftovers they had. So I suppose it was quite a green way to go on. So that, that was one area where they'd give. And then another area, which was a traditional sort of giving was that the poor boxes at the churches would be open. You can still see some poor boxes in the town church. There's one by the gate pretty much similar to giving arms. They were opened by the church wardens and then the money inside was given to the poor of the parish. So that's the sort of giving side, not so much giving presents and not wandering down King Street, looking for something for your kid, nothing, not that sort of thing. Yeah, definitely more humble, right? Yeah, yeah. And much more about family getting, well, a lot of the time, quite a lot of work because they would be trying to get things ready to sell at the market.
Tracy (00:02:35):
Mm. As I said, it started on December the 18th, which is Saint Thomas Day in Jerry, which means St. Thomas' Day which is a day that in the 1960s it was moved, but at one time it was the preparation time for Christmas. And young women in particular really quite liked this time because on the night of St. Thomas Day, they were told if they said this poem and then, then went to sleep, they would dream of their one on their future husband. So they'd get up in the morning and, you know, say, oh, well it wasn't Colin the pig farmer, clearly it was this very wealthy person.
Speaker 5 (00:03:10):
<Laugh> <laugh>.
Tracy (00:03:12):
Yeah. So then they, they would you know, that would be the start of perhaps them saying, oh, I quite like the son of the farmer next door. You know, it was kind of quite cute little introduction to things like that. And then the next major night was really December the 23rd, which was called our Long vel, which means the long evening. And the family and probably neighbors and friends would all get into one house and it would be all aimed at getting everything ready for the market on Christmas Eve. So there'd be lots of sewing, lots of embroidery daring socks and knitting and so on, and getting absolutely everything ready for the market the next day. I mean, I can imagine, you know, as the evening went on with a few more siders and a little bit of dancing, it probably, it probably wasn't quite so much workers as it had been earlier in the evening, bit of a house, house party. Yeah. So it would've been treated as like a gathering. Absolutely. Obviously was working Absolutely a gathering Yeah. Would be food and things. Lots of gossiping and playing cards was quite popular as well. And then generally the most eligible or perhaps oldest daughter of the household would sit on a green bed. So it would be a sofa covered in Holly? No, probably not. Holly, actually, that would be very silly. <Laugh>
Speaker 5 (00:04:28):
Covered
Tracy (00:04:28):
In HiFi and other dried flowers from throughout the year. She would sit there above her would be a <inaudible>. And that would be covered in Holly Ivy decorated with bits of paper and ribbons and stuff. It's kind of a pseudo crown hanging from the ceiling above, above her head. Aw, that sounds so lovely. Yeah. And everyone would come in and just admire, admire the young lady, sat there. Although, to be honest, if the work hadn't been done, I, I don't expect she just sat there all night. So <laugh>, they probably said, right, that's enough. Get up and that's get up and do some work, <laugh>. But then the next day was really the busy day. That was Christmas Eve, so that was off to market with everything you've got. The market would be Lare, Marsha, Marsha, which is the Royal Square now. And they would try and sell everything they could and they would spend quite a long time in there as well, sort of looking at the crowds and what's in the shops and all that sort of stuff. Not necessarily buying anything, but just enjoying being in town. 'cause For a lot of these people, that was the only day that they actually went into town in the whole year. Yeah. So it was a special occasion. It was a very special occasion. Yeah. And sort of like going to a concert for us, really. Mm-Hmm. Yeah. Oh, the atmosphere must have been amazing then. Yeah. Yeah.
Perry (00:05:38):
I'm sure it was. Well, I'm wondering, so it is post Calvinist, so people have chilled out a little bit. Yeah, yeah. But we're still Protestant. Yeah. So are people kind of, is there dancing and, and drinking and stuff like that at this market? Or is it still not really,
Tracy (00:05:52):
Not as far as I can tell. From what I've read, there isn't, isn't,
Perry (00:05:55):
It's still a bit more
Tracy (00:05:56):
Proper. Yeah. There isn't parting in the market. Yeah. It's kind of like a proper, proper, still
Mel (00:06:01):
Quite
Tracy (00:06:01):
Reserved, selling everything that's, it's, it's a market for trading. Yeah. but, but obviously for people who don't often see so many people together and things, it must have been quite exciting anyway here in all the noise and watching all the crowds and so on. So, yeah. I don't it, I don't think it was a Robbie Williams concert.
Perry (00:06:21):
<Laugh>. Yeah. Not like when we go to the Square now when they have a concert or,
Mel (00:06:23):
And they switch on the live side on the cannon,
Perry (00:06:26):
The normal market and
Tracy (00:06:28):
Slade
Mel (00:06:28):
Blasting through the speaker <laugh>. Yeah.
Tracy (00:06:31):
No, I don't think it,
Perry (00:06:31):
But it seems a lot less so far. Christmas in general seems a lot less geared towards children like it is nowadays, you know? Yeah,
Tracy (00:06:40):
Definitely. 
Perry (00:06:41):
It's a lot more that maybe children see almost like an afterthought, you know? Yeah, yeah. You know entertain yourselves maybe. Yeah. I mean,
Tracy (00:06:49):
They got to go round and get their bit of cake. Yeah. But there wasn't, there wasn't a, oh goodness, we must pretend papa a's been here and put footprints around and all that sort of thing. Yeah. That just didn't, didn't exist. It was a, it was very much about the family, the neighbors friends going through this long winter period together, sort of traditional meeting each other and everything. There wasn't, it wasn't all aimed at one particular day either, you know, like it is today, really. So when they got back from the market, they'd probably all be together, I should imagine again. But the one place they didn't go would be the cow shed. So I don't know whether this is come from a farmer who doesn't fancy doing even his cows that evening, but they, there was a tradition that they did not go in the cow shed because at midnight the cows knelt in honor of Jesus.
Mel (00:07:40):
Oh, interesting. Oh, heard. I've never heard that.
Perry (00:07:43):
Yeah, me
Tracy (00:07:43):
Neither. Nobody must witness that. So that's, because that's
Mel (00:07:46):
Like a sacred thing.
Tracy (00:07:47):
That's a sacred thing. So here we ha then we're onto Christmas day, obviously, so there's a walk to church, possibly the Ardell, the young lady who has been admired and has sort of told everybody who she quite likes. And so it was maybe escorted to church by sad man, that man mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah. If she's lucky, you know, and there'll be food and drink and cider was actually the, the drink of the day, as it probably is most times in Jersey, but they added eggs to it. Oh, wow. Wow. Interesting. Yeah. To make it like a, like, like an avocado. Ooh.
Perry (00:08:19):
Like a cooked egg. Like how do you, I don't know how you make that like
Mel (00:08:22):
A raw egg, I'd imagine a raw
Tracy (00:08:23):
Egg. A raw egg, yeah. Not cooked.
Perry (00:08:24):
Isn't it nice?
Tracy (00:08:25):
Imagine that floating around,
Perry (00:08:27):
Get some, get some scramble. That, or is
Mel (00:08:28):
It like a jersey agar? You?
Tracy (00:08:30):
Have you had avocado? No. Have you not had a snowball? No. Oh, you're not children of the seventies. Oh my goodness. No.
Mel (00:08:36):
Anyway, moving swift on. So after the eggnog, what we doing after that?
Tracy (00:08:39):
So, so, so then you've got Turkey dinner, although Turkey dinner really became, was around sort of 16, 20 ish when Turkey was introduced. Before that it was beef and, and pork. I have read that it was more wealthy people eating the Turkey. But actually, if I look at Europe as a whole, Turkey became very, very popular because it was cheap. So I don't know if there was a different situation in Jersey or if actually that's not quite right. And it wasn't just wealthy people, it was kind of everybody in Turkey. But certainly Turkey was on the plate. And in Jerry we've got a deton, it's ko, which means for Michael Day, when the harvest is over, you should eat geese. And for Christmas, yo should eat Turkey.
Mel (00:09:34):
So pick means Turkey.
Tracy (00:09:36):
Yeah. All those people out there with the name, all those people with
Mel (00:09:38):
The name pickle means Turkey. I didn't know that.
Tracy (00:09:40):
It can also mean dot or dotted sort of, which apparently has to do with their feathers being dotted. Again, I'm not entirely convinced about that because Romans had the word tur Turkey for a Guinea foul. Right. Which is spotted. And then when the Turkey was introduced, the word Turkey continued. Right. I don't think turkeys are spotted, but I don't know about anyone else. But anyway, that's the, that's language for you.
Perry (00:10:06):
You mentioned is it Papa Nuo before? Yes. So that's Father Christmas, obviously.
Tracy (00:10:11):
That is Father Christmas.
Perry (00:10:13):
Yes. Is that something, a word that was used to talk about that character in Jersey? No. Is that alone from
Tracy (00:10:18):
That's an anglicized,
Perry (00:10:19):
An
Tracy (00:10:19):
Anglicization thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's the word for Father Christmas, once we had that anglicization, which, which would've been 18th century. 19Th century. Yeah. Kind
Perry (00:10:30):
Of. I, I could 'cause, well I actually, I'm not entirely sure, but I think of Father Christmas as being a sort of Victorian Yeah.
Tracy (00:10:35):
Character. Absolutely. Absolutely. So yeah, that was what they called him. But he wasn't ever part of a traditional jersey Christmas before. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Probably before the Victorians, like you say, the only other custom that is really kind of written about was the be bell ringing in each parish. So a parishioner will go in and ring a bell in each parish.
Mel (00:10:57):
I think they still do it now. They do. I think it's St. Mary's St one. And there's St. Peter, I think there's like a walk that you can do only on the west of the island. 'cause I remember John Carter telling me he does it, we were talking about it as part of intangible cultural heritage. And is that, does that qualify as something we can put on the list? And I'd never heard of it before. Yeah. And he said that he does it every year with his family. And apparently it's a real westy thing to do, is to go and ring the bells of the churches. So this, that obviously must come from this tradition.
Perry (00:11:25):
So when did it start to change into this sort of, I don't wanna say anglicized, but this British style Christmas that we maybe are more familiar with today?
Tracy (00:11:35):
Well, I think in the 18th century we had an influx of people with a bit of money who found Jersey prices cheaper, unlike today. <Laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. And they came over and it was a nice place to live. There was better travel connections. And they started to buy the houses in town, or have houses built in town, and they brought with them their traditions. And obviously if you worked in their house, like a lot of people from the country would start to, they would need to speak English. They, and they would start following those sort of traditions.
Mel (00:12:12):
So talking of the language, let's actually get into speaking some of it. We've got some really lovely Christmas phrases here, Tracy mm-hmm <affirmative>. That I was hoping you could share with, with us and with our listeners so that we can maybe start injecting some of this into our community again. Okay. And get these phrases out there. So happy Christmas one way,
Tracy (00:12:30):
Correct. Well, yeah, that's, that's, it's not too difficult, that one is it?
Mel (00:12:33):
No. So ring the bells.
Tracy (00:12:36):
Sole Kosh
Mel (00:12:38):
Sole osh
Perry (00:12:39):
Sole osh.
Tracy (00:12:41):
Kosh. Kiosh
Perry (00:12:42):
Kiosh. Yeah. So the
Tracy (00:12:42):
L the L becomes a
Perry (00:12:44):
Okay. Ki Okay. It's interesting. Kiosh.
Mel (00:12:47):
Interesting. Okay. Happy New Year. Ani.
Tracy (00:12:51):
Yep. Ani an,
Mel (00:12:52):
There we go. So Juan,
Tracy (00:12:54):
So those really annoying looking at sense and circumflex and things. They are actually telling you something about how to, how to pronounce the word, which we don't have in English. And actually they're quite useful. Mm-Hmm
Mel (00:13:05):
<Affirmative>. Okay. So that's a good indicator. Okay. This next one, a
Tracy (00:13:08):
Bit slightly more difficult.
Perry (00:13:09):
I might have a crack at it. Go on Perry checker. Cher <laugh>.
Tracy (00:13:14):
No, I shouldn't laugh.
Perry (00:13:15):
<Laugh>.
Tracy (00:13:17):
Absolute
Perry (00:13:18):
Laugh. This is a laugh.
Tracy (00:13:20):
I would, I would've said exactly the same. Sherry liaises a lot. So it puts everything into one sort of illusion or, or everything kind of goes together. So it is cche. She
Perry (00:13:34):
Cche check.
Tracy (00:13:34):
She
Perry (00:13:35):
Check she, wow. Okay. Check. She,
Tracy (00:13:37):
Okay,
Mel (00:13:37):
So we've done this one already, so that's
Tracy (00:13:38):
Why it's got all those, all four posties. It's got about a million apostrophes, but it's all it's telling you is say all this together if you can. Oh,
Perry (00:13:45):
Okay. That's cool. Right. Okay.
Mel (00:13:47):
That's okay. Well, we've done this next one, father Christmas. Yeah. Pap. Anyway. And then Christmas cake gashed in. Gashed in anyway. Yep. How would you say it, Tracy? That's fine. Yeah. Yeah. I'd
Tracy (00:13:57):
Say
Perry (00:13:57):
It's an A, it's like an A, like a, yeah. I
Tracy (00:13:59):
Mean, you, it the it circumflex, it's kind of telling you to say it a bit longer. Oh. And put the stress on there. So it's G probably
Mel (00:14:06):
G ue. Yeah. Christmas card, grand Perry,
Perry (00:14:10):
Carte nu yeah.
Tracy (00:14:13):
Kame
Perry (00:14:14):
Kame. Yeah. Can't remember that
Mel (00:14:15):
Way. Okay. Christmas Eve, ve ue.
Tracy (00:14:19):
Yep. So ve ue Now. Now this is interesting. So in area you have AIC R, which means you roll your R just like you do, do you lamb port?
Mel (00:14:30):
Not as much as Spanish. Spanish
Tracy (00:14:31):
Do, don't they? Spanish
Mel (00:14:32):
Really? Roller
Tracy (00:14:34):
RI am absolutely dreadful of rolling my R. So I do what's called an vela tap. So this is your Aviola ridge? Not that you can see it on a podcast, but it's in my mouth. <Laugh>.
Mel (00:14:44):
Yeah. So the roof of your mouth
Tracy (00:14:45):
Is like the roof of your mouth where it sort of comes down to join your teeth. Yeah, that's your aviola ridge. So you can go CL so that you, because I can't roll my R very well, but it gives me that little sort of
Mel (00:14:58):
That. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Tracy (00:14:59):
Almost a pause on the R.
Mel (00:15:01):
Okay. So
Tracy (00:15:02):
CL
Mel (00:15:03):
You would roll that R
Tracy (00:15:04):
You should have rolled that. R like
Mel (00:15:06):
And circle CL.
Tracy (00:15:07):
Yes. There you go. Perfect. Is
Perry (00:15:09):
That, is that the right kind of role? Yeah, absolutely. Bel.
Mel (00:15:12):
Yeah,
Tracy (00:15:12):
That's absolutely perfect. I can't, I
Mel (00:15:15):
Tigers in
Tracy (00:15:16):
I'm, I'm rubbish at doing it. So so that's a good for a jerry speaker, but,
Mel (00:15:19):
Okay. That's a good tip though for people that can't roll their as Christmas pudding. Perry not suggesting
Perry (00:15:26):
Christmas dad. No, no, I can't do the, the,
Mel (00:15:29):
The ue ue ue,
Tracy (00:15:31):
Yeah. That
Mel (00:15:32):
If you don't ue.
Perry (00:15:34):
Perfect.
Tracy (00:15:35):
And why did you go ah, at the end?
Perry (00:15:38):
I think because a lot of the road names and stuff in Okay. And names and stuff in, in Jersey have, because that's
Mel (00:15:43):
What kind of what, that's what like the French do, I suppose. I'm trying to read. They like how French,
Tracy (00:15:46):
It's the same circumflex again, again, you know? Yeah.
Mel (00:15:48):
Well, just to kind of finish it. So we, so we've had a go at the words, but can we get you Tracy to say, to say them so that we have, so that our listeners can actually hear. Yeah. What happens when I rubbish? No, you're not rubbish <laugh>.
Tracy (00:16:02):
One way. Happy Christmas song, lake Kosh, ring the bells. Poor nanny, happy New Year check. She, what is it? Papa Father Christmas. Gosh. Denu Christmas cake. Nu Christmas card. Il Denu, Christmas Eve, PO Christmas pudding.
Mel (00:16:26):
Bravo
Perry (00:16:26):
Much. See now you can hear what, what it's supposed to sound like compared to us. Yeah.
Mel (00:16:30):
Well thank you very much, Tracy, for joining us today. You're welcome. Mercy Beyond Fe one way, having heard some Jersey Christmas traditions. We'll now be exploring how our community celebrates Christmas on a wider scale. First off, we welcome Leslie Catan. Welcome, Leslie.
Lesley (00:17:04):
Oh, thank you. I'm excited.
Mel (00:17:05):
Good. So am I, I'm excited to talk about It's good. <Laugh> a Zimbabwe and Christmas. Oh yeah.
Lesley (00:17:10):
Oh yeah.
Mel (00:17:11):
Sounds like it's gonna be a colorful one. Oh,
Lesley (00:17:13):
It definitely
Mel (00:17:14):
Is. So what days do you guys celebrate Christmas? Well,
Lesley (00:17:18):
In Zimbabwe itself, it starts as soon as the children close schools. And normally they close the first Thursday of December. And from then onwards, you can tell buses are filled up with people going to the country. As you know, Zimbabwe is a former British colony, so a lot of people descent on the cities for work, otherwise, most people, their origins are in the rural and farming areas. So you'll find after the first test there of December buses, of food highways going east, west, north, just for people to go back home. And you know, those ones who work, especially for the civil sevens, the ones who work in the banks, normally they would close around the 22nd, 23rd. And you can tell the city center is silent. It becomes a ghost town. Yeah.
Mel (00:18:07):
<Laugh>. So everyone's going back to their families. Right?
Lesley (00:18:10):
Everybody's going to their families. And there is loads of shopping. You know, it's, it's mostly food to be honest, rather than presents and, and clothes. And we always say there's a saying in Zimbabwe that a clever parent will pay the school fees, buy uniforms on that Thursday when the kids close schools <laugh>, because people tend to overspend <laugh>, <laugh>.
Mel (00:18:33):
So you've just mentioned food. So let's talk about what kind of food you guys eat around this time of year. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. What would be on your Christmas table? It
Lesley (00:18:41):
Depends. Would the, would would, how big the family is. And it also depends on what would've happened during, during that year that determines it. It's, you know, we are a farming community, so it depends if there was a drought, if there was storms, if we had a bumper harvest. So it, it just depends. If you had a bumper harvest, granny would kill a cow. Wow. You know, and when she kills a cow, it again, it has to be killed for, or slaughtered, should I say. It would be slaughtered four, five days before so that it can drip. And between those four days, you're only eating the insides, which is the tribe and you know, the kidneys and everything else. So you, it depends with the harvest, but mostly it's almost like, I would say it's almost barbecue scented rather than a roast. Chicken and potatoes. We, we never have potatoes on our table, let me put it that way. You know, plenty. No
Mel (00:19:36):
Roast potatoes, no
Lesley (00:19:38):
Roast potatoes, <laugh>. If anything you might have roast sweet potato.
Mel (00:19:43):
All delicious. Yes.
Lesley (00:19:44):
Roast sweet potato, but nah, no,
Mel (00:19:46):
No potatoes,
Lesley (00:19:47):
Rice, spaghetti of some sort, which is a new thing. And you find the older people, they did not like the, the, the British influence food. So you'd have pearl millet, you'd have finger millet, which is made into different, it can be made into a brew. It's like a fermented porridge, which is non-alcoholic. And you can also have a fermented porridge, which is alcoholic. Oh, whoa. Yeah. <laugh>.
Mel (00:20:13):
So is that, does that get, is that get quite dangerous like <laugh>? Oh, oh yeah. Later
Lesley (00:20:18):
On, later on at night, it starts doing its thing and you can tell how people are talking and you know, maybe an argument somewhere here and there. <Laugh>,
Mel (00:20:27):
It wouldn't be Christmas without a, without a scrap with
Lesley (00:20:29):
It. Of course not. And you always have that uncle who arrive at about six at night when everybody's fed and watered, because they're probably working in the army and they're the ones were on duty. Oh. And later on they would get a lift from, maybe a good boss would be like, come on, you deserve to be with your family. I'll drive you, you know, <laugh> and the party will start again. <Laugh>. Yeah.
Mel (00:20:49):
Oh, that's lovely. It's not,
Lesley (00:20:50):
Oh, colo is a must have really klaw, I don't know, what is it with Zimbabweans and colo? Actually, it's a deep diver rabbit hole I need to get into.
Mel (00:20:59):
Okay, let's
Lesley (00:21:00):
Talk about that. The rice, the meat. Yes. But colo and, and salad. It has to be there, but I, now that I think of it, I actually don't know why. Yeah.
Mel (00:21:09):
Where does that, where does that come from?
Lesley (00:21:10):
Where does that come from? I dunno.
Mel (00:21:11):
So is it like a traditional cole? So you'd have like onions, carrots, mm-hmm <affirmative>. Cabbage, mayo, the whole shebang. Yeah.
Lesley (00:21:17):
You can have it you know, just cabbage with mayonnaise and onion and that's it. Only, or you can have it with a whole shebang in it, you know. Wow. A bit of garlic, a little bit of pea a little bit. Ooh.
Mel (00:21:27):
Yeah. So that's like a staple. Yeah.
Lesley (00:21:30):
You, you actually finally hardly find a Zimbabwean who don't crave colo when they miss home <laugh>, honestly.
Mel (00:21:37):
Oh, that's so interesting. And we
Lesley (00:21:38):
Also got Voss. It's an African sausage, which it's a mix of African spices with, with with the Dutch, you know, the Dutch are quite good with their sausages. So we blended that together. As you know, we traded with the Dutch quite for quite some time. Mm. And that was my grandest favorite. So the last week of November, we'd always go to see granny. And then when we come back to the city, he would give us a list. And on that list there's always begged beans and the Voss
Mel (00:22:09):
<Laugh>.
Lesley (00:22:11):
Ask the South Africans, they'll tell you the Bravos is the best meat that you can have. Yeah,
Mel (00:22:15):
It is. And I did try one when I went to Cape Town for years ago. And it is absolutely delicious. I do love sausages. Thanks.
Lesley (00:22:21):
The flavor lingers in your mouth for days, <laugh>. Yeah,
Mel (00:22:25):
It's something else. So good. Yeah.
Lesley (00:22:26):
I think it's the coriander in it. <Laugh>.
Mel (00:22:28):
<Laugh>. Well, so how does, so how does your Christmas table here in Jersey compare to, to back home? It,
Lesley (00:22:35):
It's, it's, it's different. I, I'm quite lucky to have good friends and family here in Jersey. So some of my family, they're married to British people. So we alternate every other year we'll do an African version and then we'll do an English version or sometimes I just disappear off to Zimbabwe because <laugh>,
Lesley (00:22:56):
Because I, I find Christmas here is very commercialized. Unlike for us, it, it was all about family. So most times when I'm in Jersey, it's usually an African Christmas, which I'm always the one who cook with my other sister helping me. And it's normally, as I said, you know, BVO, ong rice, sweet potatoes, I'll do a five bed roast, which is normally wild beds, gal pheasant, sometimes patridge. Wow. some I, I've done a 10 before. 10, 10 bed roast debon them and put the stuffing because there's many of us Christmas, there's probably around 19 of us, we all converge. Nice. At, yeah, at my sister's house.
Mel (00:23:45):
It's a similar thing with my family. Yeah. Yeah. It's lots of people, lots of meat <laugh>.
Lesley (00:23:49):
But, but no matter what we do, even if we do an African type, we always have the pudding. It's always our mi pies for British brother-in-laws mi pies with the brandy butter. Oh, delicious. We always do that just to honor them, you know, like, you know, you are putting up with our African foods <laugh>, which they do love.
Mel (00:24:11):
Oh, I'm sure they love it.
Lesley (00:24:12):
They do love. Yeah.
Mel (00:24:13):
It's more like a privilege though.
Lesley (00:24:14):
Yeah. So five bed roast with, you know, all the trimmings and then we'll also have stews. It is just an array of everything. Beef stew, goat stew. Sometimes we even have Ross Lamb, five bed roasts, slaw.
Mel (00:24:29):
Delicious. So it's like a proper banquet. It's like a proper,
Lesley (00:24:31):
It's a proper banquet. Lovely.
Mel (00:24:33):
Yeah. Do you eat this meal on Christmas Day or do you eat it on Christmas Eve? When do you, when would you have this, this big dinner
Lesley (00:24:40):
In Zimbabwe? It's usually Christmas day after maybe about 12. And here in Jersey it's also Christmas Day. So really Zimbabweans eats on Christmas Day itself. But the lead up to it, it's also an event on its own.
Mel (00:24:57):
Did you guys ever go to church on
Lesley (00:24:59):
Christmas day? Because there's so much going on. We don't go to church, but the night before on the 24th, we would go to church and normally they would act, you know, the whole the shepherds coming. Yeah. And the three wise men coming and everything else. And it's usually the adults actually who would perform for the children rather than the children performing for the adults.
Mel (00:25:21):
No way. So they're around it. It,
Lesley (00:25:23):
It was a proud moment to see, you know, the matriarch of the family being quite goofy. <Laugh>, you know, like seeing my granny being quite goofy that day. 'cause You know, there were really serious, you know, serious women <laugh>. So it was always fun to see them like, you know you know, your granny wearing this big rob and lighting a matches as if it's the star and you know, everybody would be like, there it's there it is. And following it until they get to Jesus. And they would recite bible verses of the promises. And then after that church is over, it is time to party. Yeah. <laugh>. And you <laugh>, by the time you would've got home, all the uncles would drink are probably a little bit merry <laugh>. So you are singing, you are dancing and the party starts
Mel (00:26:09):
Amazing. Yeah. And so you guys play any games? Oh yeah.
Lesley (00:26:12):
You know, our games are normally, they're almost like, because that time is our, our summer and our summer they rain. Right. So it actually depends what time it is. But yeah, we do play games and most of them, they're ground base would play what is called country game. Whereby it's a 360 circle, which is divided into little pieces. And every piece, every triangle, like a pizza piece is your country. And when you call like Portugal, if you're Portugal, you have to run into the center of the circle and you call stop. Right. Whoever is the nearest, you jump towards them and they're the ones who would be eliminated. So it's like an elimination process game by country
Mel (00:26:52):
Sounds quite physical. Yeah.
Lesley (00:26:54):
Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And very competitive. And it was a mixture of of of of, of being robust. Being reactive <laugh>. And when you are the one who has to catch, the other person who's nearer to you is like long jumping. 'cause You have to catch them within four, four jumps, you know, you have to catch onto them within four jumps. Wow. So can you imagine if they're maybe a good five meters away? You have to make sure, you know, a meter and a half per jump.
Mel (00:27:22):
<Laugh>. And I reckon dinner, playing that game off for a few drinks might be just <laugh>
Lesley (00:27:27):
Or we'd put, we'll play checkers, you know, or we'd play Dutch ball. Sometimes if it's not raining, we'd collect mangos for after, you know, after Christmas dinner, our d dessert will be mangos. And sometimes if the fridge is working, 'cause again, we are now reaching 40 degrees Celsius in heat, so the fridges might not be working properly. And we are in the countryside where electricity is quite expensive. But if electricity is good, you might be lucky. And granule will make you a nice good frozen yogurt of made from fresh mangoes from the tree.
Mel (00:27:59):
Frozen yogurt with fresh mangoes. Yes.
Lesley (00:28:03):
Yes.
Mel (00:28:03):
Sounds so good. That's
Lesley (00:28:05):
Nice.
Mel (00:28:05):
Yeah, that sounds way better than yours. Pie <laugh>
Lesley (00:28:08):
<Laugh>.
Mel (00:28:10):
Although only if you're in that heat, not when you are in Jersey where it's gonna be cold <laugh>.
Lesley (00:28:16):
And at that time of Christmas, nobody has a place to sleep. You all, you know, is girls, you sleep in this room, boys, you sleep in this room. And the adults, you know, even though you are like on a farm, right? Can you imagine like your, your granny gave birth to six children and those six children gave birth to six children. And they've got, she's got six daughter and son-in-laws. So her house is full. Wow. You know, and you just know like, okay, my things are on this corner and all the, everybody, you know, people bring their sleeping bags and yeah. Music is always blaring. So
Mel (00:28:50):
It's like the biggest sleepover party you can imagine. It
Lesley (00:28:53):
Is the biggest sleepover for the next four days. <Laugh>. Yeah. Yeah.
Mel (00:28:57):
So when did the celebrations kind of end? And where does everyone kind of leave?
Lesley (00:29:00):
Yeah, that is the thing though. Like, we always stayed till the end, till about the, the 4th of January. Whoa. But some people were civil servants. It was, my parents had that flexibility, but other ones didn't have. So normally by the 27th people are starting to pack and you know, you can actually feel like, oh my gosh, I'm gonna miss this guys. You know? And granny is now starting to pack, if it's a bumper harvest, granny is now packing some food for them to take, you know, some organic foods from the farm, you know. But we'll stay till New Year, new year, another party would start
Mel (00:29:31):
<Laugh>. Yeah. I was gonna ask, so what do you guys do for New Year? So
Lesley (00:29:34):
The thing about it is Zimbabwe is a former British colony. Right. So it being a former British colony would follow a very a, a a a, a British Christmas, but with a Zimbabwean spice to it. But it's also a very significant time for us. 'cause It is a sign, it is a time when Venus is the brightest in Zimbabwe. And it's called <inaudible> in, in, in my language. And at that time, after Christmas and New Year, you find that there's a lot of drumming ceremonies that will happen between that time and new year. So the party still goes on after Christmas. 'cause We are going to different homesteads to sing dance and drum. And you know, by the time New Year comes, we are fully charged <laugh>, we're ready to party again. Oh, that sounds so good. And, and again, normally they would come to everybody in the, in our part of the village or the farm would come at my grandmother's 'cause she's the matriarch and it's another party.
Mel (00:30:33):
Okay. And how would you say Merry Christmas in one of your many languages
Lesley (00:30:38):
You'd say?
Mel (00:30:41):
And what does that, does that, does that actually mean Merry Christmas or does it mean something different? 
Lesley (00:30:46):
We, we don't have a word for merry in my language or as far as I know, some of my languages, we don't have a merry, but it means have a good Christmas. Lovely.
Mel (00:30:57):
Yeah. Beautiful. And how would you say Happy New Year? Amazing
Lesley (00:31:03):
<Laugh> again, meaning have a good new year.
Mel (00:31:14):
Next up we look at our Portuguese community and how they celebrate this holiday season. Welcome Alex. Thanks for joining us today. So it's, it's a really special interview today with you because you're actually my cousin. So we're, we are related. So a lot of the stuff that we're gonna talk about in terms of the Portuguese traditions is something we both share. So let's talk about the culinary. So like, what would you find, what would we typically find on a Portuguese table?
Alex (00:31:40):
There's different ones depending on whether it's mainland Portugal or Madeira. So when you go to a jersey home, you might have one or the other, or a bit of both. Nice. So I suppose the main one's be, which is cod be, which
Mel (00:31:56):
Is delicious. Yeah.
Alex (00:31:58):
And but it might just be normal boiled cod with all the boiled potatoes and things like that. Our Christmas, we'll have some Madeira and traditional ones as well. I, so canned, which is meat, which
Mel (00:32:09):
Is, oh, it's my favorite. That dish is amazing because it's basically chunks of pork soaked in wine and garlic for like three days. Ooh. And then it like, does this wi, this doesn't sound appetizing, but this is real, it like, it congeals into like a jelly. So then you boil it and it, the jelly kind of turns into a liquid. And then from there you then fry it and then the sauce, you like dip bread into the sauce and you fry it again. And it's, it's like the most garlicy tender. Like it's just the most amazing thing to eat. But then you literally need to eat like a slice of orange after to get rid of the garlic <laugh>.
Perry (00:32:52):
It sounds so good. Can you get that anywhere in Jersey or do you need
Mel (00:32:55):
Sure. I'm not sure. I don't Unless you like, it's a very, so there's like this term in Portuguese called Zeda, which means it's made at home. It's like a really traditionally homemade thing. So I don't think you can buy it at any of our local Portuguese shops, but you could definitely ask someone like our grandmother or my grand or my dad, for example, to make it, you
Alex (00:33:13):
Can buy Bore, which is a traditional cake. It's not just for Christmas, it's also for New Year. And fava is a bean, which it has inside. And whoever gets the bean in their slice has to buy the cake the following year. Ah,
Mel (00:33:30):
But this cake's really beautiful. So it's, it's, it's called the King's cake. And it's, it's kind of round with like a hole in the middle and it's got these amazing, like candied fruits on top. I mean, it looks nice. I personally don't like it. It's,
Alex (00:33:43):
Do you like it? It's my least favorite.
Mel (00:33:44):
Yeah. It's just more, it's more the tradition than anything. Yeah.
Perry (00:33:47):
Do you have Christmas on the same day as British people though? Well,
Alex (00:33:52):
I think that in, in Britain it's mostly on the 25th. So 25th is the main day. Yeah. Whilst in Portugal it kind of starts on the 24th. And so the proper tradition would be, so you'd have dinner on the 24th and then at midnight everyone goes to mass. So presents are open when you get back from mass and everyone goes to bed and then you make a whole day of it the following day.
Perry (00:34:19):
And, and since you've come to Jersey and, and with the local kind of Portuguese community here, has that continued or has it changed to, to kind of match what we do here? Normally
Alex (00:34:32):
I think most families have sort of, most Portuguese families have knocked the 24th on their head a little bit. And so it's on the 25th. 25Th the main day. But a lot of families are probably still celebrating on the 24th as well. Yeah.
Mel (00:34:45):
'Cause we have midnight masses at Thomas' Church. 'cause When, when I was a kid, my mom used to drag me to midnight mass.
Alex (00:34:50):
There's also an afternoon one,
Mel (00:34:52):
There's also an afternoon one
Alex (00:34:53):
And possibly a morning one. <Laugh>.
Mel (00:34:55):
There's lots of different masses for various different community groups. But yes, there is a lot of, there is a lot of church activity around, especially at St. Thomas Church Church because that is like the hub for Portuguese and Polish communities in the island. Yeah.
Alex (00:35:07):
And, and even so the decorations are church themed, you know, so to have like little angels de Young or Preo, which is how
Mel (00:35:15):
The nativity Yeah, yeah. The Preo is like the nativity. So in most Portuguese households there is like a crisp, we'll have a Christmas tree, but you have a massive preo. You have the massive nativity. So
Alex (00:35:26):
Ours would be a big deal. So we'd have like a massive, a giant one with giant statue figures of all the different people. Like, you know, the free Kings and baby Jesus and all that. Yeah. And 
Mel (00:35:35):
Yeah, my mom goes to town on hers
Alex (00:35:37):
<Laugh>.
Mel (00:35:38):
Really? She gets like the hay out and like the main, like she only puts Jesus in the manger on Christmas Eve, like after midnight. So it's all like a big thing. She only switches the light of the lanter on of one of the shepherds on Christmas day. Where
Perry (00:35:51):
Do the figurines come from? Are they, are they just kind of bought or they
Mel (00:35:54):
I actually think they came from Portugal. I think that, yeah, probably. I think, yeah. 'cause Yeah, I'm pretty sure my mom got hers in Portugal. Probably. Pretty sure. It's quite a big thing there. And in Madeira. So another thing that I, I really love about Christmas Day is our card game. Mm. Casino. So do you wanna talk a little bit about casino? It's
Alex (00:36:13):
A team game. So so you can play in teams of two or three. It's so it's a card collection game. So you collect games off the, off the table with the cards that you have in your hand. And then you're trying to score points and it becomes very competitive. <Laugh> it becomes really, really competitive because basically you have to build your point in a stack, let's say. But if somebody else from the other team has that number, has that card, they can steal it <laugh>. So,
Mel (00:36:43):
So yeah, it is crazy. But it's a really interesting game because it actually originates from Madeira. Do you, did you play it on the mainland when you lived in Portugal?
Alex (00:36:51):
Yeah, but not every Christmas. So we play it more here.
Mel (00:36:53):
Yeah, we definitely, that is one of our main traditions. So after we've had Christmas lunch, everyone's literally dying of food coma. And then we have a little bit of a reprieve and then we get into the card game and usually there's about six of us that play.
Alex (00:37:09):
It's six players maximum. But then we've got a load of players outside waiting for their turn to come in. <Laugh> <laugh>,
Mel (00:37:16):
It's like waiting around the arena for the gladiators to come in
Alex (00:37:19):
And its winner stays on.
Mel (00:37:21):
Oh yes. The winning team stays on, but it just gets insane in our household.
Alex (00:37:25):
Shouting out loud.
Mel (00:37:26):
I'm pretty sure we've had fights before. Our other cousin usually storms off if he loses, gets God gets so heated. But it's very funny. It is a very, very good game. It's really good fun. It's really good fun. Really
Alex (00:37:37):
Good fun. Yeah. So
Perry (00:37:38):
Would you say, because this is something I've heard from other immigrant communities and also kind of experienced myself a little bit when I moved to the uk, is it nothing makes you feel more like where you are from than when you aren't living in that place than when you move away? Like does it strengthen almost your traditions being away from the place? 'cause You said you wouldn't necessarily play that card game all the time, but now you're in Jersey, you play it every Christmas. Would you say that there's been a sort of 
Alex (00:38:05):
I was born in Jersey though, so I never, the Portuguese, the proper Portuguese Christmases only came at a later stage in my life. And so I was doing Christmas here first. Right. And then moved over there and did Christmas over there. And so like, it was a bit of a shock to the system. Midnight mass. So
Mel (00:38:23):
How, how it different, how is, how is celebrating, what's the vibe like in Portugal? What's, what makes it different to being in Jersey?
Alex (00:38:30):
It wasn't as much fun.
Mel (00:38:32):
No,
Alex (00:38:32):
But that wasn't casino <laugh>.
Mel (00:38:35):
Yeah. Not as many family members. 'cause I guess our family was
Alex (00:38:37):
Less family members.
Mel (00:38:38):
Yeah. Our family was kind of divided at that point. We were, there was half of us here and half of you guys were from the mainland.
Alex (00:38:43):
Yeah. And I think it was more like on the, it felt like it was more Christmas Eve Mm. You know, than, than Christmas Day. And then there was this, wait, like obviously I, I was younger. So then one of the main things about Christmas is the presents. Right? Yeah. <Laugh>. So you're just there like all day Christmas Eve going through all these things that you have to do <laugh> in order to get to present time <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. So,
Perry (00:39:06):
So it's, it's interesting to me then 'cause it, it seems obviously the Portuguese family in Jersey is kind of merged with a jersey Christmas and it's that kind of like
Mel (00:39:16):
Adopting of
Perry (00:39:17):
Two Yeah. That kind of mutual feedback between both of them, you know? Yeah. And obviously we, we talk about like, you know, different cultural ways of celebrating Christmas, but then within each individual family there's some pretty big differences as well. Like, I do Christmas a lot different than another Jersey person might just 'cause of the way my family kind of Yeah. Celebrates it, you know? Yeah. So it's never as simple as just being like, you know, this is the, the tradition. 'cause They change with, with each group, each clan, you know, it's very true.
Alex (00:39:48):
It's very, very true. Yeah. So, so I'd say, I'd say that in our case that that's probably right. That, so we've, so we've taken both traditions and sort of fused them into, into Christmas. Our Christmas. Yeah. Yeah.
Mel (00:40:01):
Another big thing that the Portuguese have around this time of year, especially at New Year, is the firework displays in Madeira, which are wild. They're like huge. And I mean they're like on a global scale, like cruise ships go there to like see this firework display every year in our house. If we are having new year at home, my dad will put the fireworks on a madeira on so that we can watch them. Like without fail, it doesn't matter what fireworks going on in the world, that's the one that's gonna be on our TV set. Yeah. What else is really typical in Portugal? Is there like a typical Portuguese tradition that's quite unique for Portugal?
Alex (00:40:39):
Back to the food? Yeah. So like different foods are eaten at different times of the Christmas proceedings. Okay. So for example, for dinner mm-hmm <affirmative>. On Christmas evening it's always cod and it's not <inaudible>, it's like boiled cod with like, you know, cabbages Yeah. And potatoes and that.
Mel (00:41:01):
Do we know why
Alex (00:41:03):
The reason for the cod is because traditionally so years and hundreds of years ago, it was the food that everybody had. Right. Okay. Most accessible. Yeah. But you never got to eat it and like, just steaks of it because people couldn't afford it. Yeah. It was always mixed in with other things. But on Christmas night you just have a proper big,
Mel (00:41:23):
Like a, a proper Blau steak. Yeah.
Alex (00:41:25):
Sounds good.
Mel (00:41:27):
Okay. So you eat the very simple salted cod dish blau on the Friday. Yeah.
Alex (00:41:33):
Dinner time. Yeah. Then you go to mass and you come back from mass and you, you eat kja, which is like a chicken
Mel (00:41:40):
Soup. Oh yeah. My favorite chicken soup. Right. It's delicious. It's basically like a whole corn-fed chicken that's boiled in water with onions and other kinds of seasoning. And then when it's ready and the chicken's like cooked, they, you kind of like tear it apart Right. And put different parts that you leave it kind of floating about. And then you add this really fine pasta or some, some families will add like a, a rice, like an like a kind of like an azo style rice or like an azo style pasta.
Alex (00:42:08):
And then the kja at midnight is because people weren't supposed to be up at midnight, they're only going 'cause it's to celebrate the birth of Jesus. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And the K is just in case you're still hungry before you go to bed. And so now, yeah. And so now obviously everyone's doing it 'cause it's tradition. But yeah,
Mel (00:42:22):
I remember doing that that time. We went to Portugal having the K at midnight. That was like, seemed a bit bizarre to me, but like was delicious. Well,
Alex (00:42:29):
<Laugh>
Mel (00:42:30):
And then what's next? What's after that? Is there anything after that or is that it?
Alex (00:42:34):
It's, well no, then traditionally, no. But then we come out with all the desserts and all the mess stuff. <Laugh>. <laugh>.
Mel (00:42:41):
Yeah. So we, yeah. I mean we do a real fusion in our Christmas table. 'cause We don't, we don't, we don't just have the, so B called Nas is, is salted cod mixed with cream and garlic and onions. And then you have these fried disks of potato on top and then it's finished off with cheese. That's our family recipe. Obviously different families will do things differently. So we have that, but we also, sometimes we'll have like a leg of lamb. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. So we'll have like a real British fusion of ours as well. 'cause We'll have like lamb with roast potatoes and all the trimmings. Yeah.
Alex (00:43:13):
So the lamb is from Yeah,
Mel (00:43:14):
The lamb is like a thing for us. And then we'll obviously have the carbon convenient eish, which is like the pork with garlic and wine, which is my personal favorite. Even though don't talk to me for about four days afterwards.
Alex (00:43:27):
Yeah. I love garlic too. So I'm in the same boat.
Mel (00:43:30):
I would, I might have to like get you a little album. Might have to bring you a dish of that
Alex (00:43:34):
Me round. So that actually has to be prepped like a month in advance or something. Is it maybe longer than that? No.
Mel (00:43:39):
So I think it's a week. It's, it's prepped. A dad does it a week in advance.
Alex (00:43:44):
Is it? Well, we'll see, I've, I've seen that, I've seen that like at the beginning of December. Sometimes like a big, really a big thing of like, yeah.
Mel (00:43:49):
Oh, okay. Well that's like, imagine eating that then you, you wouldn't be able to speak to anything for a month afterwards. <Laugh>. Yeah. But it is amazing. I mean, it doesn't look very appetizing when it's like in construction, but when it's on the table ready to go, it's good stuff that
Alex (00:44:03):
It's good. Yeah.
Mel (00:44:04):
Alex, how would you say Merry Christmas and Happy New Year in Portuguese? Would he gather
Alex (00:44:13):
No.
Mel (00:44:16):
From card games into caroling, we now welcome Marcel Bour who will be sharing our Romanian communities traditions. Welcome Marcel. Thank you for joining us today. So
Alex (00:44:28):
Well thank you for having me.
Mel (00:44:29):
Nice. It's a pleasure. We're gonna talk all things Romanian Christmas. We've had the pleasure of talking to some other people today, but I thought it'd be really nice to hear what, what the Romanian community do and how they celebrate. So what days do you celebrate Christmas?
Marcel (00:44:44):
Well, not normally. We celebrate 24th Christmas Eve. Let's big especially on on the Orthodox side because what we've, we've been learned by history and religion. Jesus was born on at midnight. So for us it's very important the meal on the evening, on the, so on the 24th. But we celebrate from let's say eight o'clock, nine o'clock on the night until next day in the morning. Wow.
Mel (00:45:09):
So what does that look like? What do you guys do?
Marcel (00:45:12):
Well first the, the, the children are starting to go caroling. This is one of the, the tradition that we used to have. So even now not here, not really here so much. But then in Romania, especially on, on the, on the countryside, they like to wear their own, our own port, you know, traditional port. And they they go caroling from, I think from about five, six o'clock on the night until about 10 o'clock. And then the adults comes, you know, that was a traditional good to go to my neighbor caroling having, you know, a meal together, especially family. So we, we gather around the table. I many we are. And then every year, normally every year another member or another sibling or another part of the family was hosting it.
Mel (00:45:58):
Oh, okay. So each, so each family will take turns and hosting. Yeah. Yeah. So is there a big meal after the caroling?
Marcel (00:46:03):
It is, yeah. Huge. Back home they used to do like six, seven, maybe eight. Eight Courses. Courses, yes.
Mel (00:46:11):
So let's talk about that. I'm really interested in like what you guys are eating. So what, what would be your first course?
Marcel (00:46:18):
First first course. It's in a way it's stuffed cabbage that it's in Romania. So it's rice with pork means all mixed with seasoning and 
Mel (00:46:34):
Like spices and
Marcel (00:46:34):
Stuff. Spices, exactly, yeah. And spices. And then just roll up in the, in the countryside they used to do it in the pickled ca cabbage. So the leaf, so the whole cabbage is actually pickled in the huge barrels.
Mel (00:46:48):
That sounds delicious.
Marcel (00:46:49):
And then just stuff, it cut it in small pieces and then stuff it, roll it and put it in the oven for maybe three, four hours.
Mel (00:46:57):
Oh, so it's served warm? Yeah,
Marcel (00:46:58):
Yeah. It's slow cooked, especially this time of year. We have a lot of students low cooked meals.
Mel (00:47:04):
Nice. So course number one, stuffed cabbage. Yes,
Marcel (00:47:07):
We can you you can call it like that. I mean, everything is, everything is on the table, right?
Mel (00:47:12):
Oh,
Marcel (00:47:12):
Okay. It's not like, you know. Okay. So we have now, so it's like a fish cabbage. Exactly. It's not like, okay, you have cabbage now, then we coming with a, the second course. No, it's, it's very similar. Exactly. Yes. Nice. So everything is on the table. Help yourself, you know.
Mel (00:47:27):
Lovely. And what else do you have on your table?
Marcel (00:47:29):
So, as I said, in Sylvania, we used to do you know, like a roast, but funny enough, we used to do and even now, the day we use homemade sausages we try to bring it from if, if you can, from the countryside, from our grandparents or families, whoever still has families in the, on the countryside. And then the tradition at home is everyone in the, on the countryside, they used to raise their own pigs and they used to cut it. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Before the, before Christmas, few days or a week or a couple of weeks everything gets cut off and portion then. Okay, this is for that, this is for the other thing. This is for my son, this is for my daughter. This goes into the, you know, into the smoke. So they, they used to do it like traditional smoking. So that's
Mel (00:48:23):
Like a big process then. Like you looking after the pig pretty much the whole year. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Ready for Christmas. And you slaughter the pig and then you c you you butcher it up Exactly. And you divide up. So you, that's really nice though that, so that's, that's like something that everyone does in Romania usually.
Marcel (00:48:37):
Yeah. So that's one. So we actually, so we have part of the meat, the sausages, everything in the, in the oven for good three, four hours again. And with mashed potatoes and a lot of pickle, you know, like cucumbers peppers cauliflower as well. Pickled. Wow. We pickle almost everything for the, for the winter.
Mel (00:48:59):
That sounds so cool. Sounds delicious. And really
Marcel (00:49:02):
Healthy. You can, you can have everything. Well, with so much fat and everything always slow cooked and it's not really healthy, but, you know, we'll just pretend. Yeah. So you know, the, so then you have the cabbage, then we have gin salad. So they're cooked in the oven or on the open fire or the, the, the whole gin, peel it off really on, in a way, mash it like, almost like MAMs like mash. And then just mix it with onions and mayonnaise.
Mel (00:49:33):
Wow.
Marcel (00:49:33):
And ginger. It just, in a bowl, just serve it on a slice of bread. So
Mel (00:49:36):
There's lots of color. Your, your table must be very colorful. Yeah,
Marcel (00:49:40):
We, we used to do as well, you know, like cauliflower as well. Exactly the same. So instead of, instead of bergin, we boil the, the cauliflower mash it, mix it with mayonnaise. And instead of onions we are using garlic.
Perry (00:49:54):
So you've got all this lovely food. Yeah. and you are, you said you, you're basically partying from, well maybe not partying, but you're awake all night until the next day. Yes. Yeah. what other things in a Romanian Christmas are maybe different to what we are used to? You know, in a classic kind of British Christmas.
Marcel (00:50:10):
So for example, we, we attend the church on, on the 24th, especially on, on the, on the countryside, on the religions idea. It has to be, you have to be at the church until about nine, 10 o'clock on the night. And then everything comes alive. Everything. People are not sleeping until Yeah, yeah. Four, five o'clock in the morning.
Mel (00:50:29):
So are you playing any games?
Marcel (00:50:31):
No, we just, we just we just chatting. We don't do anything. Honestly. There's plenty, especially on the, on the TVs. There's plenty, plenty of programs Christmas programs, you know.
Perry (00:50:42):
And do you have any kind of like sort of Father Christmas, Santa Claus kind
Marcel (00:50:47):
Of? Yes, we have we don't, it's not, it's not somebody that is going to like, dress up or anything. It's just, we have Father Christmas, we have the presents under the tree and that's it. I mean, maybe three o'clock in the morning we just start to open the, the presents and the children when they wake up, of course, in the morning. But
Mel (00:51:04):
Do you do the caroling thing here?
Marcel (00:51:06):
Or not really? Not so much. Not so much because especially if you live in a block of flats or Yeah. You know, even the houses or like in on an estate, people are looking at you and
Mel (00:51:16):
What are you guys doing? <Laugh>. Yeah.
Marcel (00:51:18):
Especially singing in Romania, they're like, okay, I
Mel (00:51:20):
Feel like I, I'm in, I love it. I wanna, yeah, <laugh>,
Marcel (00:51:24):
It'd be so nice. Back, back home, the, the tradition was like, so adults going, they, especially on the countryside, they used to dress way back, back in time. As a bear or as a, a goat or as a, yeah. Yeah. Wow.
Mel (00:51:38):
Sounds kind of folky. That sounds really interesting. Do they,
Perry (00:51:41):
Do they still do that anyway or is that
Marcel (00:51:43):
There's part, some small parts of Romania that are still doing it. Not that much in, in towns and everything we use, people are coming from, from the mountains coming down in, in cities and actually, you know, going in on the streets and singing Caroline. But no.
Perry (00:51:59):
So since you've moved to Jersey Yeah. What other ways have you kind of changed your, have you changed your Christmas traditions at all? Have they kind of, have you had to kind of work them around or merge them with any local Christmas?
Marcel (00:52:11):
Well, we, we, we had to adapt. So for example, if we host, if somebody's hosting this this year, yes, we meet all on the 24th. But then also on the 25th, like a couple of years ago, we just wanted to be ourselves. And then we booked a a room in one of the hotels and then we had our Christmas lunch at into a restaurant. So yes, I mean, we are not necessarily visit, but we are here and we have to adapt to, to, to jersey to Jersey culture. Yeah. I'll keep all my, my culture, because I'm celebrating on the 24th, so there's not a lot of interfering per se. Yeah,
Mel (00:52:51):
Because you do what you guys do on the 24th. Yeah. On the get together, have food, and then obviously on the 25th it's like a bonus day. Yeah.
Perry (00:52:59):
<Laugh>. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Extra
Mel (00:53:01):
A bonus
Marcel (00:53:01):
Day. Well, we also, you know, for example, we celebrate 6th of December.
Mel (00:53:05):
Oh, so what happens on the 6th of December?
Marcel (00:53:06):
It's like a Saint Nicholas. Yeah. So on the, on the 24th, this is more of a Russian celebration. So on the, on the 24th, it's our Christmas Eve, and then 25th, yes. Christmas day. So we have the Santa coming in and, you know, all the presents and everything. But then on the 25th, like Saint Nicholas, it's a, a smaller version of Santa Claus. Oh, okay. So normally on the sixth, the, the kids are on the fifth. On the ninth of the fifth kids, they get in there on in the boots and know, like sweets. The
Mel (00:53:39):
Sweets. Oh, okay. So is this a traditional way that you leave the boots out? Yeah. And then you, it's, so it's, it's basically like a stocking. Yeah. So when we have stockings in the, well, I don't have, I never had a stocking,
Marcel (00:53:48):
You know those Yeah, yeah.
Mel (00:53:49):
The fireplace.
Marcel (00:53:50):
Exactly.
Mel (00:53:50):
Yes. Yeah. Yes. That's a, that's a very British thing, having
Marcel (00:53:53):
A stocking. But we leave, we leave our boots. Yeah. So we actually ask our children to clean all the boots and to make sure that they're clean and leaving them on the window. Oh, that's
Mel (00:54:00):
So cute. Getting the boots ready.
Marcel (00:54:03):
So in December we celebr, we have three, you know, eight, three celebration world four with the 31st of December, but we have the 1st of December, which is our national day 6th of December and 24th.
Mel (00:54:13):
What about New Year? What do you guys get up to at New Year
Marcel (00:54:16):
Party? Yeah, <laugh>. That's normal. That's, that's nothing nothing special. No, no. Nothing changes. No. No.
Mel (00:54:23):
And what's the, what's the alcohol of choice? What do you guys drink? Wine,
Marcel (00:54:28):
Spirits. Right. So we have, you know, like the Portuguese, they have fire water. Yeah. We have a traditional back home. It's, we call it, well it's, we call it Palka in our side. In the other side it's called it Sika. And it's made, it's made of plum in other parts of the country. They're made in from different fruits. But in Transylvania it has to be from plants. The one in, on the, on the mark on the shops or in the market. You find it, I think it's about 44, between 44 and 50 percent volume, alcohol, <laugh>, but on the countryside. Wow. A a, a good one. A good one. It has to be 62% volume alcohol. 62.
Mel (00:55:08):
62%. Do you guys just lose your eyesight when you drink that? Yeah,
Marcel (00:55:12):
Me, I used it and it's made of pure, of plums, no sugar, no nothing, just Wow. Yeah. Amazing.
Mel (00:55:18):
The last question I had was, how would you say Merry Christmas and Happy New Year in Romania? Oh,
Marcel (00:55:22):
<Laugh>.
Mel (00:55:24):
Or what is your equivalent of that in Romania? So,
Marcel (00:55:27):
Merry Christmas. It's
Mel (00:55:30):
Say again? Yeah. That's so beautiful.
Marcel (00:55:37):
It's like yeah,
Mel (00:55:39):
Lovely.
Marcel (00:55:39):
It's more or less like that.
Mel (00:55:40):
Nice. And do you have like a Happy New Year or do you
Marcel (00:55:43):
It's Happy New Year. It's <inaudible> la so many years to come for you or something like that. That's
Mel (00:55:49):
Lovely. Oh, it's really nice. So far, it seems fairly obvious that food is at the center of the celebrations. So let's move into how the Polish community do things. Welcome Anna to the Jersey Heritage Podcast. How are you feeling today?
Anna (00:56:12):
I'm okay. Thank you very much.
Mel (00:56:14):
<Laugh>. Thank you very much for coming. So my first question is, what, when do you celebrate Christmas in Poland? What days of the year?
Anna (00:56:22):
The first day when we start celebrate is the 24th December, which is, we call that as <inaudible>. This is a day when everybody gets together. I mean, the whole family. We prepare the food and when the, the tradition, say when the first star comes on the sky, we supposed start eating, but before we start eating, we have the thing like it's ec, which is the very made from the flower and the water. And you, you give into each person and then everyone wishes to everyone the best, you know, through the
Mel (00:57:04):
Year. Oh, like it, like an offering. Yes. That sounds so nice.
Anna (00:57:08):
And then we actually make some prey as well, you know, like, and we sing the carol and then we can start eating. We have like, for the tradition is you, we supposed to have 12 dishes.
Mel (00:57:21):
12.
Anna (00:57:22):
12.
Mel (00:57:23):
So 12 dishes at, on the table, at the say like a feast? No,
Anna (00:57:26):
Not, not on the, probably every house has got different way of putting the, the, the food, you know, on the table in my home was like this. We prepare one by one and everyone has to try one, even if it's only a spoon. But everyone has to try one to be honest.
Mel (00:57:44):
So what kind of, what kind of dishes would be on your table?
Anna (00:57:47):
So we do dumplings. You can do all sorts of dumplings. We can do the savory one and you can do the sweet one as well. Some of them they are, the stuffing is like cheese with the ma mixed with the potato and the fried onion. Oh. The other one you can make with the cabbage could be the sour cabbage or could be the green cabbage, but you have to boil it. You can have the sweet ones, which you can make with the fruits or a cottage cheese, but made with the sugar. So it's like something for sweet taste.
Mel (00:58:23):
Yeah. So everyone has something. Yeah. okay. So dumplings, we have savory and sweets. Yes. And what else do you have on your table?
Anna (00:58:30):
We also do bitter soup with the warm, yes. Bit soap, which is made nice, served with the butter beans. Or you can make the, they call ska, which is small dumplings and with the mushrooms stuffing inside, which is nice as well, to be honest. <Laugh>.
Mel (00:58:52):
Sounds good. Do you have any meat on your table? Fish,
Anna (00:58:55):
We don't fish. We do traditional fish for Christmas is a carp. Yeah, yeah. Which is our traditional fish. But people can buy any kind of fish and if they like to be honest. And
Mel (00:59:08):
How do you prepare it?
Anna (00:59:09):
The way they do? It's a Greek style, which is made say the layers. They, they make the layers, they fry the, the fish, and then they put carrot mixed with the celery and the parsnip add it also onion and everything, you know the seasoning stuff. Yeah. Nice. And then it just make the layers and then you put in the oven and then you serve on the plate like
Mel (00:59:30):
A fish lasagna. Yes.
Anna (00:59:32):
Kind of.
Mel (00:59:32):
Sounds good. Sounds really nice. That sounds really tasty. So those are the kind of the main dishes you'd have on the table.
Anna (00:59:38):
Yes. And also you can make the, I said the, we do the bitter soup, but also you could make the like mushroom soup, you can make another, this is called bared, which is the white soup made from the flour. It's sour soup. You mix as well with the white mushrooms. Tastes so good. And also, I forgot to say, we also put on the table before when we start eating under the cloth, we put the hay.
Mel (01:00:05):
So you put hay on the table? Yes. Why?
Anna (01:00:08):
This is you know, but the Jesus was born
Mel (01:00:11):
In the manger. Yeah.
Anna (01:00:12):
And he was lying on the, apparently he's lying on the hay and the hay. So that's the, the reason why we are putting this. And also next day we are giving this hay to the animals. And apparently they, they have, I've been told this. Well, they, this is the only day a year when they talking in human language.
Mel (01:00:30):
Oh, so you, so you have the hay on your Christmas table and then the next day you give the hay to the animals and then they, that's the only time they can, you can communicate.
Anna (01:00:38):
That's only a, a one day, a a year when they can talk in our language.
Mel (01:00:42):
Oh, that's so <laugh>. There's so many symbolic things in Yes. The polish
Anna (01:00:47):
Kind of culture. So the 12 dishes as well is because of the 12
Mel (01:00:50):
Apo, the 12 disciples. Yes. So it's all very linked to like the religious side of Yes. Of the religion. Because Polish people tend to be Roman Catholic. Yes. Is that right? Yes. So do you guys go to mass?
Anna (01:01:02):
Yes, we do. We go on the midnight. And normally in Jersey it's actually in Saint Mary and Saint Peter Church. And then after that mass you can actually enjoy yourself and you know, really celebrate Christmas.
Mel (01:01:18):
So how is that different to, in Poland? Do you go to midnight mass in Poland?
Anna (01:01:21):
Yes we do. But back home when I was there, we actually had a year, well a hour before. So in the end, I have to still go next day because it wasn't counted as a midnight mass. Right. Okay. So I have to go next day to make it as
Mel (01:01:39):
A, to make up for it. Yes.
Anna (01:01:41):
<Laugh>.
Mel (01:01:42):
What are some of your favorite Christmas traditions? What's some of your favorite things about celebrating Christmas?
Anna (01:01:48):
For me, it's the spirit. You know, that you have that communi community around you. You have the friends, you have the relatives. And it's just the fact everybody feels like, you know, we are, you know, like in a proper bubble together. Together. And we can have love and, you know, such a super time.
Mel (01:02:10):
Yeah. It's a nice connecting time. Yes. Yeah, for
Anna (01:02:12):
Sure. And it's not only that, it's just the fact you, you can enjoy with the singing curls and, you know watching the nice movies as well, which is related to the Christmas
Mel (01:02:25):
On that topic. I read that Home Alone is
Anna (01:02:28):
Yes, is one, is one of our topic movies during the Christmas time. So
Mel (01:02:33):
How come, how is Home alone so big?
Anna (01:02:36):
I dunno about when I was a kid, I can't remember which year did they started when they released that movie. And I, I watched that and since then, I remember every single year there was always in Christmas time that movie on, on
Mel (01:02:49):
The Polish tv.
Anna (01:02:50):
Yes. And actually when they want to stop it, I, I read it that they, people start complaining <laugh> that why they don't pull it again. So in the end,
Mel (01:02:59):
So they brought it back. That was so funny when I read that, I was thinking, wow, that's so similar to us. 'cause It's not Christmas if I don't watch Home Alone with me and my brother. Yes. So that's really interesting that that's a very big thing in Poland as well. And how do you decorate your house? So how do you guys decorate for Christmas in Poland?
Anna (01:03:15):
We don't decorate as, as quick as I found it in Jersey because in Jersey it's quite early in, in November we do actually decorate our houses and in even on the, the 24th of December. So, which
Mel (01:03:29):
Is
Anna (01:03:29):
Eve? Yes, Christmas Eve mainly. But some people can do like two or three days before. But in my home used, we used to do on Christmas Eve and obviously we keep it for longer the decoration till 6th of January, basically. Okay. When here it's, they taken quick after
Mel (01:03:47):
Quite soon. Yeah. It's usually by the 1st of January. Yes. Decorations come down. And what is, what is your alcoholic drinks of choice? What do you guys drink at Christmas time?
Anna (01:03:56):
I, we, I like the homemade stuff, to be honest. I dunno about the others people. But in here we buy, we buy whatever we like and we drink <laugh> <laugh>.
Mel (01:04:06):
What kind of homemade alcohol do you guys make?
Anna (01:04:09):
Oh, you can make all all sorts of,
Mel (01:04:10):
What's your favorite?
Anna (01:04:13):
It's like a plum. I dunno how you call that to be honest.
Mel (01:04:17):
It's like a firewater. Yes. That's so interesting. 'cause That's exactly what the Romanians do. So like, we just, our speaker before you, Marcel was telling us about this plum fire water that you can make at home. Yeah. And they made it. So it's interesting how there's similarities. So you, I'm guessing you open presents on Christmas?
Anna (01:04:35):
Yes, we do. Yes, we
Mel (01:04:36):
Do. And when about, is there a traditional time to open presents?
Anna (01:04:40):
Well I think we opening like, you know, like after dinner we have, and especially when we are with the kids around the day, always wants to be a first one to open <laugh>. So when they say we can open, we can open. So we just have to open.
Mel (01:04:53):
And how, how is, how is celebrating Christmas in Jersey different to celebrating in Poland?
Anna (01:05:00):
We still follow the tradition, obviously, but you know, everybody has, has got the work in here and we have to make different time and arrange things differently than back home. Back home. You know, you have someone always to prepare everything, so you are just coming and you are ready for it. But in here I always have, well, we trying to speak to friends, the group of friends, and then we divide the, the job, what we have to do. And in the end we just make it the preparation. And when the day comes, we just enjoy it.
Mel (01:05:35):
Nice. So you all, you all come together and you all bring something different. Yes. So that it's less work for one person. Right? Yeah. I suppose that's a big deal. And how, how do you guys celebrate New Year? Do you do anything special in Poland for
Anna (01:05:47):
New Year? Depend on the people. You know, some people goes, they like to do big things, you know, they like to go somewhere like big city when they do the big fireworks and other things, you know, the games, whatever. Some people just like to be quiet and, you know, be at home and probably just watching the TV or how the people are celebrate in different countries wherever. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. For me it's like this. If I feel like I want to go and, you know, celebrate, I will go. But if I feel like, oh, I don't really have a power, then I can't be bothered. <Laugh>,
Mel (01:06:20):
I think, I think I can say the same. How would you say Merry Christmas in Polish?
Anna (01:06:26):
I I say it if you, if you repeat it after me. I'll try.
Mel (01:06:29):
I'll try. I'll try. Let's try
Anna (01:06:32):
Wick
Mel (01:06:33):
Again.
Anna (01:06:35):
Wick
Mel (01:06:36):
Wick. Very good. Ic
Anna (01:06:41):
Wick.
Mel (01:06:42):
Wick. Very
Anna (01:06:44):
Good.
Mel (01:06:46):
There you go guys. I'm Polish Nat. Polish citizen now. Nice. And how would you say Happy New happy New Year.
Mel (01:06:59):
Just as we stopped recording, Anna mentioned a really special Christmas tradition that her family still do to this day. They leave an empty seat at the dinner table just in case, in case someone drops in, in case someone doesn't have anywhere else to go. Almost as a tribute to those alone at this time of year. And it left me thinking that we really aren't that different. We might celebrate this time of year eating different food and playing different games, but this time of year is essentially about kindness and humility and caring for one another. We'd like to sincerely thank all of our amazing guest speakers who've shared their stories and traditions with us today. Tracy from Jersey Heritage, Alex Silva, Anna Yoda, Marcel bor, and Leslie Cat Sande. We'd also like to thank all of our amazing listeners who've tuned in throughout 2024. This podcast wouldn't be possible without you, and we can't wait to share more big stories from our small island with you in 2025. If you enjoy today's episode, don't forget to click on the subscribe button for more.