Girls don’t Surf with Arlene Maltman

In this episode Mel and Perry welcome Jersey's very own British and European surf champion, Arlene Maltman. Arlene shares her incredible story of being a female surfer in a male dominated sport.

Mel and Perry will talk about the heritage of surfing in Jersey, how the names of surf spots have become part of our intangible cultural heritage and how surfing has put Jersey on the map.

Arlene shares how people's attitudes to women in the sport has changed and how the industry supporting women surfing has developed.  She also shares her memories of Jersey as a European hotspot for surfing culture.

So grab your board and join Mel, Perry and Arlene for a surf through history.

We’re asking practitioners, community groups or ICH champions to share their traditions, language, knowledge, habits, beliefs and customs to create a list of the Island’s intangible cultural heritage.  Share your stories by visiting our website.  ICH | Jersey Heritage

Transcript

0:00:02):

Welcome to the Jersey Heritage Podcast,

Mel (00:00:05):

The Small Island Big Story sessions.

Perry (00:00:08):

You are listening to Mel and Perry. In today's episode, we welcome jersey's very own British and European surf champion, Arlene Maltman.

Mel (00:00:18):

Arlene will be sharing her incredible story of being a female surfer in a male dominated sport.

Perry (00:00:26):

Okay. So Arlene, welcome to the podcast. I just wanna sort of start at the beginning about your early life in Jersey and how you got into surfing

Arlene (00:00:37):

My early life in Jersey. Well, my my mom came to Jersey in about 1960, met my dad at the Battle of Flowers. He was an Africans, a rugby player. They decided to go to South Africa. They had, me and my mom bought me back here when I was about two years old. And I grew up at Kenay Park. Had, you know, a, a childhood around there and going to school. My mom was a primary school teacher at St. John's. And then we moved down to a cottage in St. Juan's, along Val de Lamar. It was a small cottage in a farm. Oh, lovely farm

Perry (00:01:23):

<Laugh>. Lovely. And is that, where, is that where it's a reservoir now?

Arlene (00:01:27):

No, it's further along at Val de La mar. So it's the ERs farm. Oh, yeah. So it was the Margaret and Roy and then their children and Steven Voer became one of my friends who used to play with but the area was very Jersey COEs and the early part of my childhood, the, the area around Leia was the dump before it was all cleaned up. So we used to go down to the dump and find all bits of fridges and tires, <laugh> and it stak. And I built a camp down in the woods at Val not far from the farm. And my camp was my, you know, it was my sanctuary. Built out potato boxes and corrugated iron, you know, played around the farm a lot. Set fire to the barn once by mistake with playing with the stuffing of tomato boxes.

Arlene (00:02:25):

And and interestingly, the surfboard factory from Steve Haywood was there just before we moved in. So that was one of his early locations. And as a result, I my neighbor found a really old board of his, it was like an old, I don't even know what you'd call them now, but had a dome deck and sort of a, a scoop nose. So we found one of those. So there was lots of remnants of, of the factory and the landlords were, you know, boat owners and fishermen. And one day the daughter got quite badly burned with with resin that they were cooking. And so, you know, what my memories of, of growing up on the farm were, you know, it was very outdoors, you know, I was always getting hurt, you know, it was falling down a wall and going to a and e or stepping on a nail, or, you know, I'd be down in the camp and I'd make fried bark for my dinner and build traps. And yeah. So you know, childhood dance at, at one's was, was really lovely. And of course, I had the C right there, which was, became very important in my life. Yeah.

Mel (00:03:37):

Well, you were building resilience to, to your career that followed, right? <Laugh>? Yeah, because surfing's like an intense sport. I mean, I started, I, I started learning how to surf last, last summer, and I had no idea how hard it is. It's just so physically demanding. You have to have this knowledge of the sea, like knowledge of the elements, like know where is safe, where isn't. So where did it start for you in terms of the love of the surf?

Arlene (00:04:06):

So I was, I think I was probably just turned 12 when my mom took me down to tco. So my mom was a school teacher, she taught primary school. So my memories of, of being young with my mom was that she, she was always quite you know, stressed from work, from teaching primary school. So what she always used to say to me was, oh, I, she's Welsh, you know, say, oh, I've got to go and see the sea. So <laugh>, we're going and have a cup Ko. So you know, we used to go down to El Chico and you know, have a really have a cup of tea out of those dreadful stainless steel tea Potts that leaked everywhere. Yeah. So a couple of years prior, my parents were divorced. And the, the period of time growing up at Kenne Bay Park and back and forth to South Africa, it was quite traumatic, you know, for, for me because it, it was, it was just very unsettled.

Arlene (00:05:11):

'Cause My parents were getting divorced. There was a lot of tension, a lot of shouting you know, a bit of violence. So, you know, I sort of, I sort of carried that stress, I think as a young person. So my mom said, you know, let's go and see the sea. And my earliest memories of of that was sitting with my mom and me sort of knowing that my mom had gone through this divorce. And, you know, there was sort of that atmosphere of, you know, she was probably coming to terms with that. So as soon as I saw people out in the sea, I, I just thought they were dots. So I had this vision of the dots, just the dots out to sea. And I remember sitting at Alteco watching them, and all I could think about was, I want to be out there. I want to be out there <laugh> with the dots, because everything in the land is horrible. You know, adults don't get on so

Mel (00:06:13):

Heavy. Yeah,

Arlene (00:06:14):

Exactly. Heavy school is, you know, I, I went to the girls' college Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So I just enrolled in the secondary school, and back then it was the ladies' college and you were being prepared to be a secretary or a housewife, a lady, a lady, the college. So there was this, this sort of inward pressure. And also surfing didn't exist at that point. It wasn't a recognized sport per se. It was very much or very low key. And, you know, certainly there weren't any girls at the time. So when I first saw the dots, I just had this sense that somehow that would fix me, that would take away all the things that I was feeling about, about life. Hmm. And, you know, that was my panacea, that I was going to chase that. And I said to my mom, I wanted to try surfing. I already was doing horse riding and, you know, so she, she then took me back to tco, I think it was in the summer or the autumn. And and I sort of went from there.

Mel (00:07:27):

Amazing. And what were you, what kind of board did you, what was your first board? Like, if you could describe it to us?

Arlene (00:07:33):

Well, the board that John Bennett from the Hut lent Meade TCO was frightening.

Mel (00:07:40):

<Laugh> <laugh>.

Arlene (00:07:42):

I don't think it would pass health and safety these days. Oh,

Mel (00:07:44):

Absolutely not. No, it's definitely not a foamy, no

Arlene (00:07:49):

Foamy had yet to be invented. It was because when surfing first came to the island, the South Africans bought over boards for the, for the lifeguards. And I think it was a remnant of one of those very early, long boards. It was probably about 12 feet long. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, I mean, it was huge. I was only 13. Yeah. And I was small. And John picked picked it off the rack and he put it down, and I just remember this huge fin, and it was all brown and, you know, beaten up. And he, and he said, oh, go and take one of the planks, and you know, this, this guy helped me. And he basically just put it at the bottom of the steps and said, oh, there you go. Now go off in the white water. I'm going surfing. So <laugh>,

Mel (00:08:36):

Good

Arlene (00:08:36):

Luck. So this chap disappeared, and I remember dragging it by the back. Must have been so heavy. It was very heavy. I had no leash. I had massive fin. And yeah, I, I didn't know anything, but I, I'd watched the dots. So I just remember, remember the man saying, stand up in the white water. So I took this massive log, went around to my waist, you know, did a couple of belly boards on it, and I just managed to stand up somehow, you know, in the foam. And from that moment that that was it, I just came hooked to that feeling like a

Mel (00:09:14):

Duck to water. Just a natural.

Perry (00:09:16):

Did you have any like, sort of teachers or early role models or anything like that locally? Or were you aware of any kind of, I know you said surfing was quite low key at the time, but did you know of any surf, like international surfers or anything like that? Or

Arlene (00:09:30):

Not? When I first started, so after that experience and I became hooked, I wanted to spend all my time surfing at that point. And I got to then know, somehow I got to know Renny Gould and Tristan dod and Kenton Osmond sort of little group of surfers Nikki Havel. And they were just little grommets, like me, <laugh>. And, you know, we, we had a lovely little group, but it, it took a while for me to be accepted because initially it was, you know, oh, what's girl do now here? Ooh, Ooh. You know, it was that they didn't quite get that girls were part of the surfing community because we had no exposure to surfing. So the only exposure I had being very, very young, was quick flash in Hawaii five. Oh yeah,

Mel (00:10:25):

Yeah. <Laugh>. Yeah.

Arlene (00:10:26):

You know, and it was sort of like, wow, it's a wave and trying to look, you know, on the telly, the little tiny telly evidence of surfing. So it wasn't until later when we had access to the surfing magazines, and I used to work at what used to be the Silver Surfer when I was a teenager. And the magazines would come from America. And it was a big event, you know, the Surfing magazine would arrive and it was like opening the Bible. And all of a sudden there were these images of men surfing in Hawaii and Australia. And then Steve Harewood bought over films from California in the eighties. And these films were like Morning of the Earth Free Ride. But I, I vividly remember going to the Royal Hotel in Bath Street, and he had it projected, you know, and big Super eight, and seeing these images of people surfing in Bali, you know, Indonesia, Hawaii, and then coming back and the next day getting up for school and being faced with howling on shore, one foot slop. Yeah.

Mel (00:11:41):

<Laugh>. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The disillusion of the jersey waves in comparison to these amazing tropical clean, big waves. Yes, yes. But then I just think, doesn't that make you a better surfer because you're having to surf in like crummy conditions that then when you do experience these lovely big, beautiful waves, you are kind of like ready for them? I don't know. I mean, that's me asking you 'cause Yeah. They're so different. How does, so like how does surfing in Jersey compare to surfing in international waters?

Arlene (00:12:11):

Well, it's extremely, extremely difficult growing up having this fantasy and this vision of that's what I want to do, that's where I want to go. And a lot of the local surfers at the time in the eighties every year went to Morocco. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So there was, there was a, a convoy, if you like, of vans, VW vans that used to disappear in the autumn. And I used to sit in the vans and listen to their stories about Morocco and indulge in other activities, which are probably shouldn't speak about not illegal, but yes, well, smoking of certain materials. Yeah. Which was part of the culture. Yeah. Because the surfing was sort of born out of the hippie era. So a lot of the values from California, so, so when Steven ha Harwood went to California, he came back with all these ideas for board designs. But he came back as a hippie also. And he was involved in the Divine Light Mission and the guru Maji. So surfing really had this feel of, you know, it was sort of a hippie

Mel (00:13:23):

Yeah. Kind of culture. Yeah. And like really spiritual and kind of like following this community vibe.

Arlene (00:13:29):

Yes. Because surfing and that culture married very well together. Mm-Hmm. So it, it became known actually, you didn't want to advertise that you were a surfer over here because it was, oh, you know, surfers are bums, surfers are dropouts, surfers are hippies. And certainly at school, I, I was considered you know, on the fringe it was sort of, oh, she's the surfer, sort of, you know, trying to make sense of the very, this very different community on the island. Mm-Hmm. Yeah.

Mel (00:14:06):

'Cause you're going against the grain in terms of you're not following like a cultural norm of the time. And yeah. Being a surfer, you were kind of like an outsider or someone that does life differently. So you are different. So you are strange or do you know, I, I totally get it. 'cause I think we still have those elements in our kind of culture today. But it's interesting how surfing has gone from that to now becoming an internationally recognized sport that, you know, is now in the Olympics. Which is crazy considering, like the evolution of surfing is kind of happened in the last a hundred years. Really. 'cause our records go back to like the 1920s when surfing just kind of started like post World War I. So it's really interesting how that's changed just even like your lifetime.

Arlene (00:14:51):

Absolutely. It's, it's a completely different sport now. And I would say that, yeah, in the early days that there was a real good sense of community at St one's. And we were known for our parties, <laugh>, you know, marquee parties and there was a lot, lot of camaraderie and Ry in surfing. And the difference for me came when I wanted to compete. And that really switches you to a whole different mind game. So I remember having a conversation with one of the grommets, 'cause this magazine came out and it was a picture of this tent with a board in this like, you know, early eighties. Early early eighties. And it was somewhere in South America. And we had this discussion and, and the boy said, surfing, that's what that's about. It's about the tent and the waves. And yet there were magazines coming out asking what the future of pro surfing was.

Arlene (00:15:52):

'Cause Professional surfing started in 1976 with the tour for the men that they were beginning to put together. The women had a bit of a longer fight to get events because the men didn't want the women sort of to take the purse and dilute the strength of their tour. Yeah. So it was very much based on men competing. So for me, having this switch, if you like, to looking at the magazines and these people competing, and something in me just thought, oh, you know, wow, you know, I'd like to do that. I mean, there was no, no way that anybody was making a living outta surfing. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But the 1981 channel Island championships were announced now before then, there were no separate women's events. So all the competitions to that time, including the European Championships, which was won by Gordon Burgess had about 10,000 people down at St.

Arlene (00:16:56):

Juan's watching. Wow. And Miss World presented the trophies. So <laugh>, of course she does <laugh> just to sweeten it up for the boys. Hilarious. Just to sweeten the deal. Yeah. <Laugh>. Exactly. And actually, if you look back in, in the magazines, it culturally and globally, that was the role of women in surfing, just to glamorize it. Yeah. They were surf wi what we call surf widows, bikini clad, you know, falling over their, you know, strong, fabulous male surfer that had just, you know, ridden a big wave. And I think you'd, you know, our culture picked up on that. So the boys sort of took that on saying, well, you know, well girls, girls can't surf. Look, oh, they're already there to wear bikinis. Because that was the narrative coming out of Australia in particular. I mean, the Australians were quite brutal in their attitudes towards women's surfers. You know, it's like, ah, Sheilas, you know, they don't surf. They were very quite derogatory things said about women, especially in terms of their physicality. Well, they're not strong enough. A woman just will never be able to do that maneuver, or they'll never be able to surf a big wave 'cause they just physically can't. Which

Mel (00:18:16):

Is crazy. 'cause I remember watching a documentary at the Jersey Surf Film Festival last summer, and the whole thing that blew my mind was in compe in competitions when women were competing in the heats, apparently, well, not apparently, this is exactly what happened. They would send the girls out when the conditions were rubbish and save the good conditions for the, for the male heat. And it's like, how can these girls perform and do well when they are in rubbish conditions? And they had to fight for every wave. And obviously there's like that massive divide of, of course, a woman can't be good at surfing if she's going, going out in rubbish conditions, as opposed to like saving it for the men. Like, did did you ever experience anything like that when you were competing? Yes.

Arlene (00:18:59):

Well, I, I grew up in that, in that era. And I know the girls that you're talking about, and I know the events that you're talking about. It, it was because there was just no thought to the women. As I said before, they, they wanted to keep all the attention and marketing and everything focused towards the men. So we were just an afterthought. Hmm. And there was many times when I'd surf a heat and like you said, oh, we need a break now, you know, oh, it's high tide, let's stick the girls in. And the, the, the heats that I've surfed and the conditions I've surfed in, in competitions, it's just outrageous. I remember one time in Scotland I had to paddle out through this harbor, and one of the local guys was just kind of like, Ooh, you know, oh gosh. He said, gonna have to go out there and just sort of, you know, wished me luck and off I went.

Arlene (00:19:53):

But it was this place called Sewer Pipe Reef. And you can imagine it was like an out outflow and it was on shore and it was, it was just disgusting. But, you know, there was nobody there to kind of say, hang on, this is Rob. Yeah. Although I must say that Linda Sharp was a big advocate in changing that. So she was a lot older than me, and her partner was also involved with the running of contests. So she, she would pipe up and say, oh no, you know, you can't put us in low tide, you know, when it's dumping. So gradually that has changed, but you, you are right. It was very, very difficult for the women.

Mel (00:20:35):

Yeah. Re and really unfair, totally unfair, because girls, girls do rip when they have good conditions. I've like seen competitions where there are some absolutely phenomenally talented female surfers when they have the right wave. So it's just, but it must be so frustrating for you and your experience having dealt with all of that, but also really lovely to see a change.

Arlene (00:21:01):

My last serious competitive run was when I did the WQS tour. I was in my mid thirties and I, I was interested to, to sort of be on that, that cutting edge, if you like, of, of change in surfing. But it's only been in the last few years that I think I've properly seen any difference. I think one of the big moments was the first ever contest that women were allowed to surf at the pipeline. And because they hadn't been out there in competitions and they hadn't had experience and allowed to be in that environment to practice, you know, you're going out in the world's most dangerous wave. It, you know, it's, it's notoriously in a deadly wave. So the first few heats women were kind of, you know, getting their, their foot and they were sitting on the shoulder. And a, a local girl really took this incredible wave and, and got a nice barrel.

Arlene (00:22:08):

But the still, the chatter on social media was, oh, that was rubbish. You know, oh, I can't believe they're sitting on the shoulder. Or, and it, I remember seeing this just another slew of negativity towards women surfing and the same same debate where people were actually saying, oh, well, girls, girls can't surf like blokes, you know? Oh. And that there was just this negativity. And I just thought, will it ever go away? You know, we're still getting these voices of, of men just being so negative, you know? And I, I love it, Melissa, that you are, you are, you are like incensed. You're like, well, this isn't fair. And it, it's true. It, it's not fair. And it hasn't been fair, and it hasn't been equal because the attitudes hadn't changed. And I still see some of that, you know, it's almost like when the girls do well now, like recently at Oo, they were at the WSL event. I mean, it was incredible. Tatiana, Western Webb, who surfs for Brazil was taking off in the most critical, biggest hollows waves at pu. And in my mind, that was a real defining moment. People still were making this comparison of, oh, well girl, you know, girls don't surf like men. I, I've never understand, understood that argument. You know, I've never understood the logic in that argument, but it's, it's a historical attitude. And, you know, I think, I hope that the narrative is finally changing. Still

Perry (00:23:52):

Always work to do. Oh, always. You know, you know, like when you, you were saying those comments before, you know, it's easy I think sometimes maybe as a man to think like, oh, things are a lot better now. But obviously there's still a ton of issues that Yeah. Women face in, in many sports and many areas of life, you know?

Arlene (00:24:09):

And I think it's interesting because it depends on what you want to do with your surfing career. So for me, I wanted to compete, and I think I was going back to 1981, where they, they announced the competition, but there was no, there was no category for women. So, you know, there was the men's and then there was the men's, and then there was the old men's, and then Genius there was the young men's. Yeah. <laugh> actually, genius wasn't so much of a thing then. Oh, right, okay. So I wanted to compete. So they said, well, I could surf with the boys. And that's what they were doing in Australia a lot, because they were going through the same thing. And it was my mom actually that went to see the surfboard club and said she was PE teacher, you know, so she knew these things. <Laugh>.

Arlene (00:25:00):

Okay. <laugh> she said, you know, there should be a separate event because Arlene wants to go on and she wants to compete in the British Championships. So they agreed, and they would, they would have this separate event for women, and it was a straight final. And that was really then my progression because I, I'd had that experience and I had that title, and then I could move on and I could go to the British Championships. And subsequently was chosen for my first world championships. I just turned 17. And that was with a British team in Australia. Whoa.

Mel (00:25:36):

That's

Arlene (00:25:36):

Cool. Yeah. That was quite an experience.

Perry (00:25:39):

17. So scary.

Arlene (00:25:40):

God. Yeah. Just turned 17.

Mel (00:25:42):

Arlene, you're a wildcat. <Laugh> 17, going off to Oz to like, compete and surf from Jersey Yeah. In big Australian waves. That's so cool.

Arlene (00:25:51):

Yeah. And it was, if you know a bit about your surfing, it was Tommy Corrin that won that year. But it was, it was an eyeopener of course. And being on the team as well, it was all boys, except for Linda, who was, as I said, 10 years older than me, and a lot more comfortable in herself and experience. So it, it really was an eyeopener in, in Australia. And I think I finished seventh and I, I wanted to carry on from then. So I went to two more worlds after that.

Mel (00:26:22):

And then you competed in the World Surfing Championship in California, and then you later became the European champion. Yeah. What was that like?

Arlene (00:26:29):

I was the European champion in 1983, and then I was twice British Champion, 84 and 87, I believe. Wow. And the British were, were hard. It was hard because it was coming from here, but going over to New Key, very different surroundings, different judges conditions were always dreadful. One year I was disqualified because I caught 11 waves. And you're only allowed 10 <laugh>. What these funny rules back then. Yeah. But most, most of the surfing in the European slash British arena, the waves were pretty dreadful. But I I spent a lot of time in California and I won some big events in California. I loved it over there. Yeah. What,

Perry (00:27:18):

What goes into, because you know, the waves are so kind of relatively small. What goes into preparing yourself for these international competitions when you, when you're sort of stuck locally?

Arlene (00:27:27):

Well, so now I'm a director of GB surfing on the board of GB Surfing, which is the organization which is managing athletes to prepare them for the Olympic Games. So our, our mission is to find British athletes that will become podium level in the Olympics. So we now sponsor or fund our elite squad Yeah. To go on camps. So for example, they've just got back from Australia, they had six weeks in Australia training, and they've been in Portugal and and so forth. And they have the wave pool, and they have coaches, and they have physios, and they have nutritionists and they have social media people. So it's a really starting to build this really professional environment around amateur surfing, if you like. But when I was growing up, the notion of having a coach was, it was just not even a part of anything. It was more like if you drank enough beers the night before, you were good to go. <Laugh>. Yeah.

Perry (00:28:33):

<Laugh>

Arlene (00:28:36):

And I, I just remember this one contest in Scotland being, being up the night before and feeling really anxious about the contest. And it was, oh, get a few beers down yours. You'd be all right, <laugh>. So yes, that was the, the fuel, if you like. But the coaching was usually somebody from the Channel Islands team going, oh, just paddle out over there. You'll be all right. You know, it was very much unaided and in terms of nutrition, oh, get that bacon and egg down, you, you know, paddle out, you know, and I just sort of remember having a big English fry up on a hangover, you know, trying to surfing in an event. But that, that was the rites of passage. That was the culture that you, you didn't want to appear too cool. Like nobody did stretches on the beach or anything. You'd just be a laughing stock. 'cause There was a lot of ribbing and teasing. Yeah. You know, stepping away from that now and you, it when you see the opportunities and the prep preparation athletes can have. Yeah. I wish in a sense I had, had been born in this era because I think these people can really fulfill their potential.

Mel (00:29:48):

And like, going back to surfing in Jersey, 'cause obviously you surfed in some pretty amazing spots in like globally, but thinking about Jersey and our waters, you know, it, it's, we've got some really cool spots along the west coast of the island. Like, we've got places like slang, words like goldies and secrets and all these places that surfers have as like a spot. Where's your favorite spot to surf in Jersey? Well, growing

Arlene (00:30:15):

Up, as you say, we had to come to terms, if you like, with the tide. So when I was at school, I cut out the jp the tide table. I used to keep it in my pocket. And I, I spent my life memorizing, you know, where the tide would come. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> what time I'd learned the Beaufort scale because everything was contingent upon the wind, the tide, the swell. And there was no electronic forecasting. There was no magic seaweed or surf line. The only people that knew when the swell were coming were some of the surfers could read the maps in the jp, you know, or the quick flash on B, B, C. So this was fascinating to me because I didn't know anything about it. So I would listen to them saying, oh, there's a low pressure coming across, you know, and there's a high coming in, so Wednesday it'll be this tide.

Arlene (00:31:13):

That's when the surf would be on. So you really had to become so in tune with the constant changing conditions here. And as you know, from low tide to high tide, it's a completely different place. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I spent many hours studying and hours waiting and watching because when the, when the elements did finally come together, we would get some memorable waves, but most of the time was the chasing and the dreaming and the hoping. So in those days growing up, I remember sitting with Renny once and he said oh, we should, we should go and paddle out on those reefs over there. We should go and surf nipple rock.

Mel (00:31:55):

Nipple rock <laugh>. Where's that? Uhhuh never heard of nipple rock. See you surfers are in with all these spots that I have not even heard of before. <Laugh>. Yeah. Nipple rock. You ever heard of

Perry (00:32:04):

That? I haven't, no. You like like kinda the local fishermen and sailors, you kind of know all of the reefs more than than anyone, you know,

Arlene (00:32:12):

You do. Yeah. And I remember Renny saying that to me, and of course, you know, I was about 13 and I thought it was very embarrassing. <Laugh> <laugh>. But he, he was, you know, he was my hero growing up. He was brave and he would go off and surf the reefs around. Wow. but I was, I was always really scared of thinking about surfing over rocks. And I've surfed at corre a few times in Stinkies a few times, but it's not like other places in the world where the reefs are quite flat. Yeah. The reefs we have here, there's just these random rocks which come up and when the tide changes, it's even more dangerous. So for me growing up, my favorite place was secrets. And back in those days, secrets was the place where you had to have kind of been through your rites of passage to surf there. You couldn't just rock up and paddle out at secrets.

Mel (00:33:10):

What would happen if you did do that?

Arlene (00:33:12):

Well back then there was what they call grom torture.

Mel (00:33:16):

Okay. That sounds brutal.

Arlene (00:33:19):

It was brutal actually. And you know, things have moved on since then, but there've been many occasions where, you know, grommets would be dunked held under, you know, people would slash tires or write things on the wall. No way.

Mel (00:33:33):

So like really bad stuff.

Arlene (00:33:35):

Yeah. There was, there was a period of some localism, surfing and localism is quite well documented. So if you read some of the surf history around the world, again, it comes back to that part. It's quite closely linked to sexism. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. But localism is a factor that happens when somebody different or from the outside will come and surf a break. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>, I remember surfing in trestles in California and skateboarding down the path and it, there's big chalk writing saying, if you don't live here, don't surf here. So it was very, people are very, very protective of their local breaks and you can paddle out in places around the world. And fortunately for me, I, I've been okay because I paddle out somewhere new and you know, wait my turn or try and see who the local is and just be respectful, stay out the way. But a lot of locals have got very upset that their breaks have been taken over by people. And that's where it stems from. And St. Ws hasn't been immune to that. I'd say on the whole, our surfing community is, is amazing. You know, it's, yeah. Really friendly, welcom really friendly. Welcoming. Yeah. Welcoming. But there have been some periods over the years where, you know, that's sort of raised its ugly head. And I think that's just borrowing from probably other surf cultures.

Perry (00:35:07):

And do you think because obviously there, there was the sex sexism, but do you think there was other, other kinds of discrimination that was kind of visible, you know, in Jersey but internationally as well? Sort of, you know, any classism and, and racism and stuff, did that rear its head?

Arlene (00:35:22):

Oh, definitely. Like, because I think traditionally, you know, surfing, the image of surfing is the white blonde male. Yeah. And you look back culturally how that started. And for example, the movie Gidget, which was a massive cultural shift for surfing, it really brought surfing into the mainstream. And when you look at say the, the marketing for surfing, even with the women, it's always, you know, the blonde, male, female, certain body type. So Pauline Men has just written a book and she was one of the early pioneers of surfing. She's, she's Australian, right? Yes. Yeah. And she's just written a book called Surf like a woman <laugh>. And she had a very interesting story. She suffered dreadfully was rheumatoid arthritis, but she's you know, openly gay. She's got short brown hair freckles. She is not a the post child. Yeah, for sure. And that really impacted on her surfing career because the sponsors weren't interested.

Arlene (00:36:31):

No. They were interested in the Roxy girl. So all of a sudden, this is how it started, the Roxy movement started because the, the guys from Quicksilver were doing a sales run in Southern California to sell board shorts to men. And they suddenly realized that the shops didn't have any garments for women. Ooh. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So I mean I grew up wearing a men's wetsuit until, you know, a decade ago maybe, because there just, there wasn't any apparel for water women generally. So these two guys said, oh look, oh, there's nothing for women to surf in. So the, the Roxy invented the board shorts for women and it was great 'cause during the eighties I used to wear them a lot. They were really long and quite protective and good for protecting for the sun. So it was Lisa Anderson that really came on board with Roxy to build that brand.

Arlene (00:37:34):

But what happened was it, it just became very, became very young. So they started to sponsor very, very young girls and they did this book of young girls surfing in bikinis. And, you know, I just thought we've made one step forward, but in a sense we've taken a step back because it raises the questions of, you know, how women are being objectified. Yeah. And it was around that time that the, the a SP at the time got into trouble because when they were filming the women's heats, they were filming close up, you know, on Yeah. Terrible. It's unbelievable. Onto them. So the, the whole the whole feeling of surfing at the time was, you know, well where are we? You know, we've come a long way, but we're still sexualizing or objectifying women in these adverts and these companies are trying to, to find this idea of this perfect surfer woman. Yeah. And as we know, you know, women surfers come from all different backgrounds. Yeah. All different shapes and sizes

Mel (00:38:46):

And all different abilities as well. Yeah. And I think what's really interesting is how surfing became, it was less about the sport and more about the kind of the ideology of, of the, the look. It was more about the culture of looking like a surfer as opposed to actually being out there and doing it. You had to, it, it was cool to look like a surfer girl, but you weren't necessarily surfing. You

Arlene (00:39:07):

Are totally right. And I'm, it's great. I think that you've, you've done your homework and it's nice to speak to somebody that has a little bit of an, you know, perspective. And there you are sitting with your Roxy top sitting

Mel (00:39:16):

With my Roxy tub. Yeah. <laugh>. But I actually do get in the water guys. <Laugh>. But yeah, it was, it is a total, there is an absolute image. Like I remember being like a young teenager going up to freedom and getting my, my freedom bag that I'd then take to school. And I actually spent a lot of time out at st once. 'cause I had a primary school friend that lived at the Water Splash. 'cause Her dad at the time was the manager. So I think his name was Col. It was Colin led at the time. Remember? Yes. Remember Colin,

Arlene (00:39:45):

Shout

Mel (00:39:45):

Colin. Everyone. so my friend Cassie used to live there. So I remember spending a lot of time out at the water splash and a and like, I wasn't an amazing surfer by any stretch of the imagination, but I remember going out and being terrified of being out there, but feeling like just being, it would just being a really cool thing. But then I stopped doing it 'cause I felt like my body wasn't the right body to be a surfer. I didn't feel like I looked like a surfer. I just, I didn't feel like I fit into that culture even though it's a culture that I've always found really fascinating. But more so from the perspective of understanding the elements, understanding the tides, understand you have to be super intuitive when you're surfing. And not just about the conditions, but about the people around you and making sure that everyone's safe. But that kind of perception goes more into, well I just wanna be really good at it, so stay outta my way. But in my head it's more about, is everyone okay? Is everyone having fun? 'cause Surfing's about having fun to me

Speaker 4 (00:40:44):

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Arlene (00:41:03):

I spent, you know, I spent my whole childhood at the, at the water splash and because it was a bit different era, but they, yet there was still those, the, those elements and those factors that you were talking about that crept in even in, in my generation. But I think for that particular generation, you're talking about surfing didn't do itself a favor because as you say, people were chasing the image and Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, you know, you'd see this, the images of girls and they're absolutely perfect. But the reality of surfing is, you know, I mean, I, hopefully nobody takes pictures of me when I get out of the sea. <Laugh>, especially here, you know, my hair's like a wild woman from Borneo. Yeah. <Laugh>. My lips are blue, you know, I, I've been sun, sun damaged up the wazo. So that, that's the reality of the image. Yeah. It's

Mel (00:41:59):

A brutal, it's a brutal sport. And you have to be super like, resilient to all that stuff. 'cause You know, people get hurt all the time. You just gotta be, have your wits about you at all stages. So it's just, yes, hats off to anyone that surfs. I think it's insane.

Arlene (00:42:14):

I think that's the point that surfing really hasn't come with a handbook. What, what's happening is the reason why there's tension in the water is because you get people that have learned and learned the right way and you've spent years doing it. And then somebody will paddle into the lineup that can't lie in their board. They're a total hazard to everybody. And it's having to try to tell people, well, you know, can you go and learn over there? Mm. Because as you say that there's a lot of sort of uncharted waters when it comes to etiquette and knowing where to go and how to do it.

Mel (00:42:56):

Well that's really interesting you mention that because there's this, there's this whole concept around intangible cultural heritage. So basically thinking about, you know, as museums, we have tangible items in our collection. So, you know, a surfboard is tangible. You, you can touch it, you can see it, it's there. Whereas an intangible element of heritage is exactly what you're talking about right now is learning the etiquette. What, what, what are you allowed to do? What aren't you allowed to do? You know, understanding what, how to respect other surfers. Like not to drop in on other surfers to take turns. Learning how to surf is more than just the skill of the person and the board. It's a, it's a cultural thing. So it's like really interesting in finding ways of capturing this. 'cause Another element is like, you know, the way that we call places secrets or goldies or that's all intangible because a culture has developed that the people develop it and it's something that we're still living by. Like surf culture is still massive in our island. So it's really interesting to hear you talk about, you know, people having to learn what those things are and not necessarily someone teaching you, but you just having to make yourself aware of it. 'cause It's all intangible and it's all, it's all cultural heritage. So it's like really fascinating to have you explain that. It is.

Arlene (00:44:16):

And I think that's a really interesting discussion is about intangible these days. Because I don't think our society does well at that concept of intangibility because we expect everything to be there in front of us now at our fingertips. So the, the idea of having to intrinsically learn something that actually might take time, might take years and

Mel (00:44:45):

Patience. But

Arlene (00:44:45):

We're, we're very much an instant society and we want to surf and we want to surf now. We want to surf that big wave and we want to be just like the people, you know, in the magazines that do it. And we want our Instagram moment. But you are right. Surfing is one of those pursuits that takes an enormous amount of peripheral vision, if you like, or intuition. And knowing the sea takes decades and it, and knowing our waters takes a long time. And it's having patience and speaking to people. I dunno if you've ever seen the movie Big Wednesday. I have,

Mel (00:45:22):

Yeah. But

Arlene (00:45:23):

That's, you know, that's quite interesting. Where the surfer standing looking at, at the swell coming in and, and the guy next to him and the guy says, oh, you know, it's a really big swell. And the surfer says this is nothing. This is the lemon next to the pie. Meaning that, you know, in an hour or two hours this is gonna be twice the size of it is. So it's things like that the, the person who was learning this was listening to the sage. Yeah. And for me, learning about surfing was a lot of time just sitting and watching and waiting and asking questions. And I don't think as a society we are particularly good at that anymore. I don't, I don't know. I I just see a lot of people that they

Mel (00:46:12):

Wanna rush into things. Yeah. And without re understanding the ethos of what they're

Arlene (00:46:15):

Doing. And it's frustrating for me sometimes surfing now it's, it's very, it can be very frustrating. So

Mel (00:46:23):

What would, what would you pass down to the next generation of surfers? Like what advice would you give to surfers these days that are like either wanting to just do it for fun or if they're wanting to compete, what would your golden nugget piece of wisdom be? <Laugh>?

Arlene (00:46:38):

Well, certainly as in any sport practice, it has to really consume you. It has to take you, it has to be a lifestyle, not just a, a sport. I would say to people who want to surface that. You've got to take yourself into where the waves are. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> that jersey is never going to be a place for someone who wants to compete at a high level. Mm-Hmm. <affirmative>. If you want to be a enjoy surfing and be a recreational surfer, there's loads of great surf schools at st one's now. I would go to one of those and take some lessons, hang out, chill out, you know, watch the sunset, study the, the tides. Get to know your environment as much as you can ask about etiquette. You know, don't just paddle out where there's a group of surfers 'cause you think that's what you do, but ask, why can't I surf there? Ask about the dropping rule, the snaking rule. Don't hassle people. Just learn your basics. I'd spent, I dunno how many hours as a child practicing what they call the popup now. So I used to go to my bedroom and jump up and imagine there was a surfboard below me. And the, those basic maneuvers of surfing like the, the the takeoff really the fundamentals of putting together good maneuvers.

Mel (00:48:10):

So do you still surf?

Arlene (00:48:11):

I do still surf. I found it quite difficult in later years. The injuries particularly shoulders. I had quite a bad accident in Bali and my shoulder's never really been the same since. And now my other shoulder's gone and my back really hurts. And I have, you know, the usual arthritis in my neck and my knees and yeah. And it was like you were talking earlier actually the physicality of surfing. When I go surfing now, I usually have to lie down for about three days. And I think back as to the hours and hours and hours I used to put in. I, I remember in the school holidays, you know, going down, surfing all through the tide, surfing through the uptide, seven, eight hours a day. I used to get out of the water and which was a great advantage here when it was 10 o'clock at night and the lights at the splash would come on and it would be, you know, dark. And I'd put two pee in the phone books and say, beep beep, beep, beep. Hi mom, can you come and pick me

Mel (00:49:14):

Up <laugh>? Wow.

Arlene (00:49:15):

You know, 'cause I'd be cold. So it does take its toll on you physically. You have to be extremely fit. I I, yeah. It is

Mel (00:49:23):

Ridiculous.

Arlene (00:49:24):

And I really have found that. And I surf a, a slightly longer board now I surf a six, eight or something. A bit of a hybrid shape to help. But, you know, and that's the other thing, you have to get the right board for your ability. So that's what I would say to people starting out is don't go on a shorter board too quickly. 'cause You think it's cool. You have to find a board that, that suits your stages of surfing development. Well,

Mel (00:49:52):

I'll be on a nine foot foamy the rest of my life, I reckon. Just 'cause it's fun. I'm not interested in being good at it. It's just for me, it's about being out in the element and doing it and having a good time. No desire to be good, just, it's just fun to do it with your friends and go out and have fun. Like, we're so lucky that we have the ocean all around our island and we have a whole coastline dedicated to the one that one thing. So,

Arlene (00:50:17):

And I think that's the pure, that's the pureness of surfing. As I said to you, my attitude changed hugely when I wanted to compete. And I spent, you know, the majority of my life schlepping around competitions, sleeping on couches, surfing mediocre waves because I wanted to be the best that I could and to, to win the titles. And it, it took me quite a long time to decompress from that. 'cause It, I wanted that sense of achievement and competitiveness. But surfing at its core, I would say it's a zen experience. It's a spiritual experience. Yeah. A hundred percent. It's, it's a healing experience. And, and that's where I started as, you know, very, very young child. I sensed that about the ocean and what the dots could do and what they could offer and how that would, you know, fix me I suppose. So competitions were a diversion from that.

Arlene (00:51:20):

And you know, that I think they fulfill other things in your psyche or your desires, this desire to compete. Not everybody has it. And I, when I, when I came back from living in New York, I met up with some girls that were local girl surfers because during the time I was away surfing had started to pick up for girls in Jersey. So when I came back I thought, oh wow, look, there's, there's a group of girls surfing. And it was the first time that I had sort of encountered that apart from competitions where people, you know, you don't have that same camaraderie. So I met up with this group of girls and I had just the summer of my life, you know, it was hilarious. <Laugh>, you know, they were, they were my, they were my surf sisters. Yeah. Nice. And I'd come back from living a city life living in New York and working in advertising and thinking, you know, oh, I'll, I'll surf again.

Arlene (00:52:24):

You know, I can go on holiday and I can surf. But I, I got involved in my career. And so when I decided to come back home, partly because of Lisa Anderson and the cover of Surfer magazine and the birth of Roxy, I decided to come back to my passion 'cause it was missing in my life and city life. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So I decided to come home and thankfully there was this group of girls that sort of took me under their wing and being able to surf with a group was just amazing. And there was one particular girl who was so talented, you know, she was, but a real character also. So on and off the land, just the most full on person, you know, in, in life. <Laugh>. It's no matter what she did. And her talent was extraordinary. And I, I would watch her and I'd think I'd say to her, why do you go in the competitions?

Arlene (00:53:29):

You know, go in the competition. There's a competition this week. Oh no, no I can't. And she would go in a couple of them and she was a nervous wreck and hated it. The way I looked at it was like, oh my goodness, you're a natural. You've got this incredible talent and you're throwing it all away. Mm. Because that was my view. And I ended up meeting with her in Bali actually. And which became a bit of a personal journey of how I had my relationship with waves and how then I tried to let go of this, this vision of everything has to be as though you're surfing in a contest every day. 'cause I used to go out and free surf, but it was always practicing for an event, you know? So I put a lot of pressure on myself. I think there's two aspects to surfing. One is this idea of free surfing, which is in its purity. And then how do you take that into a competition? I

Mel (00:54:31):

Think one of the most beautiful things you, you mentioned before that surfing is spiritual and I a hundred percent agree because when I'm in the water and I have this board with me, nothing, nothing is more kind of like grounding than being out there and being completely stripped back to just you, the sea and this board. It's like the most present thing you can do. You don't think about past, you don't think about future. You're just totally in that moment. And I do understand that like I can understand why so many people do it in the sense of, you know, you mentioned that the sea completely, it was like a healing process for you in terms of like your childhood and moving forward into something that you could really sink your teeth into. So I really appreciate you mentioning that because that is, I think a lot of people think that surfing is just this sport and it's just this kind of like way of life, but it's actually a real, it's a really healing thing to do. Even though you absolutely destroy your body in the process.

Arlene (00:55:28):

And I think as you were saying that, I had an image of you surfing at St. W's <laugh> and I had terribly interview just like with the sun setting at the Splash. And we are so lucky here because you can still get days here where you can be the only person in the lineup or you can be the only person on the beach. Yeah. The waves might not be perfect, but you can still be out there on your own. And that beautiful expansive of sand that we have, it's still one of the most special, special places, you know, on the planet. Yeah, sure. In terms of our sea and, and our opportunity that we have to, to get out there and serve.

Mel (00:56:09):

Yeah. And credit to my friend Rowan, who's the one that's dragged my, my butt into the water. So yeah, thanks to her. 'cause It's, it has changed my life in many ways when I get out there. That's amazing. Yeah, it's been great. It's been an amazing, so then when we had this opportunity to talk about surfing in terms of the history of, of how big it has been in Jersey, I had no idea how progressive jersey was in terms of the surfing and how it created a subculture. I had the channel islands, it never in my mind came into like, how did it, how did our surfing culture change the European landscape for surfing? And the channel line has been really up there in terms of adopting this lifestyle, this culture. So it's been a massive eye-opener.

Arlene (00:56:56):

And I've gotta say, you know, credit goes to the Jersey Surfboard club. So it's the oldest surfboard club 1959 formed. And there's been a tremendous amount of volunteering and work that's gone into staging events. And we are known throughout Europe as the place that hosts the most fantastic events. And that's due to the hard work of a lot of volunteers. And this year we have the British Cup coming up in October, and I'm sure it's going to be such a well run, well organized, hospitable event. 'cause People love coming here because well we used to be famous for the marquee parties, <laugh> <laugh> and yeah, well I won't go into the details of those <laugh>, but they, it, it just, it's part has been part of our hospitality in Jersey to stage events. And I, I won the European Championships here on home ground and, you know, that was probably up there for me in my life of, of winning an event at home and enjoying all the, the, the celebrations that went around it.

Arlene (00:58:19):

But in terms of globally, you know, we we do punch, punch above our weight in that sense. And we've produced some really talented surfers over the years. But it's, it's very, very difficult to break into that elite level. Mm. So it'll be interesting to see if we do get a Britain in the next cycle of the Olympics. So it's in Paris 24, then it's in LA and then it's in Brisbane. So we will see, because I remember going to the World Championships in California in 84 and it was a, a demonstration sport for the Olympics. And I remember thinking, gosh, wow, I could be in the Olympics. So obviously it's taken a long time, but, but surfing is in the Olympics, so it, it's going to be really interesting how that that all plays out.

Mel (00:59:23):

Yeah, absolutely. Well thank you so much for sharing your story with us. It's been fascinating to talk to you. But just to finish off, I think it'd be really lovely just to very quickly talk about your book. 'cause You are, you've kind of delved into the memoir of your life and you've written an amazing book, which will be released when,

Arlene (00:59:45):

Well, I'm still on my first draft, but I've been on my first draft for way too long, for years I think. But I'm hoping things will move along now, but it's been, you know, it's, it's been really, it's been quite consuming. Yeah.

Mel (01:00:02):

I bet

Arlene (01:00:03):

It's really shaped, shaped me as a person in that it's forced me to look back in, into my life. But also it's been great because I've, I think I've, I'm able to speak a lot more coherently now about the history of women surfing Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>, because I've had to write some of that down and really put thinking into how did I feel about, you know, when the, when they filmed girls close up and how did I feel about when the Roxy book came out? Hmm. So I think you know, I've done some deep thinking into the history of the sport, and I think that's really important for today's generation, because when I say listen to commentators say in the tennis, for example, it's always nice to know what the roots are. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> of something. And you know, and sitting here nearly 50 years of surfing that's half a century. Yeah. You know, that, that's, that's quite, quite a, a span if you like. Yeah. So that my book starts out with me learning to surf and, and then it goes on to my foray to in America and, and then it goes into a bit of travel places I had been. And it, hopefully, it talks a bit about the tension that I felt between competitions and free surfing and, you know, comes to a point where it has a little bit of thought and philosophy into the whole journey.

Mel (01:01:42):

Amazing. And what is the title of the book? Well,

Arlene (01:01:45):

The working title is Girls Don't Surf. I was thinking of calling it British Girls Don't Surf, but then my friend who's a writer, he said to me, oh, you should call it Birds Don't Surf, <laugh>

Speaker 5 (01:01:57):

<Laugh>,

Mel (01:02:01):

Controversial title.

Arlene (01:02:03):

So I thought that was really amusing. Yeah, that is. Right. And there is a documentary that you mentioned and it's called girls Can't Surf Girls

Mel (01:02:11):

Brilliant documentary. Yes. I absolutely loved that documentary.

Arlene (01:02:15):

It's very, very well worth watching. It's

Mel (01:02:17):

Amazing. Yeah. Anyone out there that's got any interest in surfing watch that

Arlene (01:02:21):

Documentary. Girls Can't Surf. You can Google it and you can find it on Vimeo or, or or the like, but those were my peers. So Jody Cooper was a good friend of mine and Tony Stewart. No way. Yes. Really? Yeah, she was, I went, I surfed Bell's Beach in 1985 and hung out with the Australians. Oh

Mel (01:02:40):

My God, that is so cool.

Arlene (01:02:41):

<Laugh>. And you know, I was from Jersey and I just, you know, I was found myself on the pro tour in Australia in 1985 and we went down to Bells and I was, I was the token Po <laugh> the Pomy. And they took me to Kings Cross and you know, I mean, I've got a picture of me and Jodi Cooper and I've got a cigarette in my mouth and stubbies and the other hand and <laugh> you know, it was, they were unbelievable surfers. And Jodi Cooper, of course was fantastic big wave surfer.

Mel (01:03:17):

What I found really interesting in that documentary is how she actually talked about her surfing in a bikini and like a wave going right up her <laugh> and saying like, literally it was like the worst thing ever. She said she'd never wear, wore a bikini after that. But then obviously she shed a lot of light on obviously what it was like to be gay in like the surf world. And it was just really, it was, she was so honest about her experience, which I found to be really touching. And it just goes to show that it's not just about the sport. It's like there's a hole. Your life is completely on show when you are in that world. So I just thought it was a real beautiful documentary. Yeah,

Arlene (01:03:54):

It was excellent. And you had you know, the highlighted Lane Beachley, Fredda Zamber, Freeda Zamber,

Mel (01:04:04):

The Machine

Arlene (01:04:05):

<Laugh>. And I do remember her on tour when I first started. And I think she was one of the first women that, you know, that was starting to, to look at things professionally. So, you know, she had the most Amma amazing body shape. I mean, she was so fit. And you know, that was a big change up from you know, women not perceived as athletes. Yeah. It's changed the perception that actually these are athletes.

Speaker 4 (01:04:40):

Research your family history at the Jersey Archive. Dive into our vast online catalog or visit in person. Our expert staff await to guide you on your journey. We are open Monday to Thursday, nine to one, then two till five, subscribe today.

Perry (01:04:58):

It'd be great to actually talk about, just, just a little bit. We don't even have to record it if you don't want, but just some of the amazing photographs you were saying that you've, you've collected over your, over your kind of career of surfing and it'd be so interesting. Are they gonna be in the book? Are you, is there gonna be like some nice illustrations in there?

Arlene (01:05:17):

Yes. There's a great picture of me that Dave Ferguson took at the Salty Dog.

Mel (01:05:22):

Oh really? Ah, nice. 

Arlene (01:05:24):

It's a black and white and he shot some black and white pictures and you know, I thought, oh gosh, I was really cute back then. <Laugh> <laugh>,

Arlene (01:05:35):

You still are, but the difficulty was surfing in those days. There weren't any cameras around. Yeah. Which was such a shame. And it was just my luck. I remember doing a documentary for ITV and it was about Steve Harwood and it was about me and the day they filmed Steve surfing, it was perfect, like three to four foot. And then they said they would film me and it was a February afternoon and the water was, you know, seven degrees. Wow. Less. The water was five degrees and it was freezing. And the waves were one foot

Mel (01:06:14):

Slop, <laugh>. Oh no.

Arlene (01:06:16):

So that seemed to, but I, I've got a few, Alex Williams has taken a nice one of me surfing. Some ones. The only really nice ones I've had were, when I was in Mexico, I was quite lucky in the eighties there was a photographer on the beach. I have two nice pictures from there, but they're a little bit blurry. So the, the quality is not the same as you would get now, but perhaps somebody out there who's a water photographer can make me look good because you know, water photography is really come a long way. Wow. Yeah.

Mel (01:06:47):

It's a complete, it's like, that's the thing now with the whole surfing thing is that photography and like videography is its own, it's like its own sub genre of the whole culture of surfing. That's so true. Because people need their, they need it captured. Right. So it's really interesting now you watch any kind of documentary, you just see all these cameras popping out in the waves 'cause everyone's just trying to capture everything. So that's like a whole sport in itself.

Arlene (01:07:10):

Yes. Mm-Hmm. And actually a big shout out to the industry that's grown through, through Ocean Life. Yeah. So I'm thinking Matt Portus. Mm-Hmm. You know, Matt had his start at St. One's Bay and he still has a real affinity of course for the Bay. There's Ollie Jones. Yeah. So

Mel (01:07:29):

Ollie's great

Arlene (01:07:30):

Photographer. Yeah. And now he's shooting commercials with Gillian Anderson. Yeah, yeah. I

Mel (01:07:35):

Saw that on his

Arlene (01:07:36):

Socials. Yes. And really cool. There's Robbie Dark and

Mel (01:07:39):

Yeah, Robbie Dark's a legend. 

Arlene (01:07:41):

There's the guys that slingshot this new generation of photographers are really being able to capture the culture as it is now. Yeah. I think we're very reliant on the material that we have from the past, which you know, and there's some great pictures of the really early days of surfing. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative>. So we're lucky to have

Mel (01:08:04):

That. Yeah, we are. 'cause Dave Ferguson captured a lot, didn't he as well.

Arlene (01:08:08):

Dave was always the roaming photographer and chief beer getting the round in <laugh>. Crucial job. And of course we, you know, we called him pizza Dave, that was his nickname. <Laugh> Pizza. Dave and everybody had a nickname back then. I have a whole list of weird and wonderful names. People were called

Mel (01:08:29):

Some more intangible cultural heritage there.

Arlene (01:08:31):

Yes, absolutely. And real characters. So there was one chap that I used to think was a, a legend surfer. He had so much talent, but you know, unfortunately some of the guys got caught up in taking drugs from going, going away to places. And, you know, that's a bit of the darker side of any part of life, I suppose, but certainly in surfing 'cause it's so close to becoming addicted. Mm. You know, and you have Andy Irons who the tragic story of his drug addiction. So, you know, we weren't immune from that. There's, we've lost a couple of people.

Mel (01:09:10):

Yeah. It's

Arlene (01:09:10):

Really sad. But, you know, I think when you, when you sail so close to the edge of, of adrenaline, you know, and you have to feed that, I think that's where that comes from in the sport. Yeah. Because, you know, being down to earth is, is difficult. You know, if you've ridden incredible waves and then you, you know, you're sitting in the pub, you know, talking, somebody's talking about, you know, what color they're gonna paint their walls. It's, it's, it's that high, high adrenaline, I think that surfing feeds. So one of the chaps got a bit caught up in that and he had a parcel delivered to Jerry Lopez at the Water Splash, which, you know, Jerry Lopez is iconic pipeline rider. So it alerted the authorities and he got, you know, he got put in jail and, you know, that was sort of the sad part of, you know, because surfing, I think while it's a beautiful and very glamorous sport, it it does have, its, its its dark side. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And I think you only have to look at the history of the North Shore in Hawaii to realize that well,

Mel (01:10:22):

Especially 'cause people go to the water to escape the hardships of the past. Right. So

Arlene (01:10:28):

Yes. And, and again, I think it, it's finding that adrenaline that you get from surfing sometimes it's hard to separate yourself from that and you just chase it and chase it. There's a great book actually called tad Zillow. His name is, he's a professor at Yale, I believe English professor. He's written two really good books if you want to read a good surf memoir. One's called on a, on on a Wave. And the other one's called Cocaine and Surfing. Wow. It's all about, oh, and there's another one called Taking the Drop. That's right. It's called Taking the Drop. And it's about that relationship between addiction and surfing. Right. It's, it's quite interesting if you want to delve into something a bit more meaty.

Mel (01:11:18):

Well that is really interesting how those two correlate. 'cause You're right. They're like, it's a highly addictive thing to do turning to addictive substances. I can understand. You're just constantly chasing that high, whether it's in the sea or whether it's on land. So yeah, I can definitely see how those two things marry up. Yes. Which is unfortunate, but also

Arlene (01:11:37):

It's

Mel (01:11:37):

So human to be Yes. Chasing that dopamine hit. Right.

Arlene (01:11:40):

Exactly. The dopamine. Another good book I'd recommend is Barbarian Days by William Finnegan, a Pulitzer Prize winning memoir about his, he, he's a journalist worked for the New York Times, but a fantastic book if you want to read more about Surfing and Life. Yeah. And Pauline's book's really good.

Mel (01:12:09):

I didn't know she'd released one. Yes. I'll have to check it out. It's on

Arlene (01:12:12):

Audible as

Mel (01:12:13):

Well. I think she's cool as Oh really? Does she actually know, does she narrate her

Arlene (01:12:16):

Own book? No, she doesn't Narrat narrate it. That's that's a show. But it's an Australian author. Okay. That reads it. I'll

Mel (01:12:23):

Have to give that a lesson because I thought her story is really interesting. It's

Arlene (01:12:26):

Good.

Mel (01:12:27):

We should go for a surf.

Arlene (01:12:29):

Yes. I'd be keen. Where do you normally go?

Mel (01:12:31):

Well, I just l TCO kind of way. Oh, okay. So kind of near like LaPorte. My friend's running LaPorte surf school. Yes. I dunno if you know Max Nicholas and

Arlene (01:12:39):

No, I, I know it's been taken over from Yeah,

Mel (01:12:41):

So he's been a couple of years he, I've helped him put together a little ladies club, so Oh, fantastic. He does lessons on a Sunday usually. But

Arlene (01:12:49):

What if I can come and join your ladies

Mel (01:12:50):

Club? Oh my God, that would be insane. I'd be like, this is my friend Arlene, just like pro surfer extraordinaire. That'd be

Perry (01:12:56):

Great. And you get some good photos as well while you're out there. 

Arlene (01:13:00):

Well that would be great.

Mel (01:13:01):

Well, let's, now that I've got your, your number, Arlene. Well,

Arlene (01:13:04):

And I, I think it's still, it's still quite intimidating from what I hear for women to go down there and Yeah.

Mel (01:13:12):

I, I feel it when I go down there. Yeah, for sure. I still feel the whole like, oh, I don't look like a surfer. I wonder what everyone's thinking when I get into this. Like, what, anyway, but you just have to get past it. You just have to, it's like, try not to think about what other people think. Just Yes. You're just go in there to do your things. Just like,

Arlene (01:13:28):

And I think let your surfing speak for itself.

Mel (01:13:31):

My surfing's terrible. Mm-Hmm,

Arlene (01:13:33):

<Affirmative>. Well we need to, we need to welcome that. My smile

Mel (01:13:34):

Speaks to myself. Yeah. I just like, yeah. It's just like a little, like a little walrus paddling around

Arlene (01:13:39):

<Laugh>.

Mel (01:13:41):

But anyway, thank you so much for your time. Thank you. It's been such been, such a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Arlene (01:13:46):

Thank you.

Speaker 6 (01:13:47):

Yeah, that was, that was amazing. That was really good. That was good. Thank you so much. That's

Speaker 7 (01:13:50):

A wrap.

Speaker 8 (01:13:52):

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