Working in a Cold War Bunker

In today's episode, Mel and Perry are going to be talking to Paul Lister, he'll be sharing first hand experience of what it was like to work in a Cold War bunker here in Jersey. Hidden in a street in the heart of St. Heller, this Jersey Command Center was used to pass and receive messages of potential nuclear fallout around the UK and Europe. We are really lucky today to be joined by Paul Lister, who worked in the Cold War Bunker in the late 1980s.

If you'd like to visit the Cold War bunker in Jersey then you can find out how on our website Cold War Bunker | Jersey Heritage.

If you'd  like to support our work, telling the Island's stories, please consider supporting us through Membership or a donation.  Support | Jersey Heritage

Transcript

Working in a Cold War Bunker – 
 The Jersey Heritage Podcast ‘Small Island, Big Story Sessions’

Hosts: Mel Rodrigues & Perry Mesney
 Guest Speaker: Paul Lister 

Perry (00:02):

Welcome to the Jersey Heritage Podcast,

Mel (00:06):

The Small Island Big Story Sessions.

Perry (00:08):

You are listening to Mel and Perry.

Mel (00:11):

In today's episode, we are going to be sharing first hand experience of what it was like to work in a Cold War bunker here in Jersey. Hidden in a street in the heart of St. Heller, this Jersey Command Center was used to pass and receive messages of potential nuclear fallout around the UK and Europe. We are really lucky today to be joined by Paul Lister, who worked in the Cold War Bunker in the late 1980s.

Extract from CWB Recording (00:34):

(Audio from a Cold War Drill from the 1980's).

Extract from CWB Recording (00:34):

Work is the first of America and forces network being to Europe this morning at 1100 hours, our ballistic missile, early warning systems spread out throughout the world. Began to pick up a number of unidentified aircraft and objects in the air moving towards the North American continent. Our interceptor force was dispatched to engage these unidentified aircraft, and at the same time, our complete surface wear and missile system was alerted and weapons were fired.

Mel (01:05):

Welcome, Paul Lister to our episode today. We're gonna be talking about your experience down in the Cold War Bunker. So I guess my first question is, what is the Cold War bunker?

Paul  (01:15):

The bunker originally was a German bunker built during the war as a communications bunker. And then post-war at the beginning of the, the Cold War, which I'm sure you know about, it was turned into a warning and monitoring station in case of a nuclear incident. Whereby our role particularly was to monitor, get information from the UK via a body called UKWMO, the United Kingdom Warning and Monitoring Organization. We worked closely with them and also with Ren in France. And that was a warning side. That is, beg your pardon - The monitoring side. And then the warning side was having got information where we thought there was potentially radiation around the island. Our role then was to advise the public of the island that there was radiation about, which was important because radiation, as you probably know, you can't see it. You can't taste it, you can't smell it, you don't know it's there. But we did if it was there. And so, as I said, we would then warn the public of.

Mel (02:23):

Wow. And what time period was this? Like, so what year was all this going on?

Paul  (02:26):

This was in, well, it started sort of post-war. You know, it was Russia, basically against the west post-war, particularly in, I would say in the late fifties, sixties and, and into the eighties and finished really? When the Berlin War came down, 80 something or other. 88. Was that, I think Mm-Hmm.

Mel (02:47):

<Affirmative> Not sure. No.

Paul  (02:50):

But, but the Berlin Wall came down. The threat was seen to be diminished. UKWMO in the UK was wound up, so we had no one to talk to. And so we wound up as well in, in the late eighties. Yeah. So it wasn't only nuclear nuclear war situations. Also, when a chernobyl happened, for example we were involved going around the island measuring radiation and if need be, warning the public about what we found.

Perry (03:16):

And how scary was this? Was this time? Like, were you thinking at any point this could all happen?

Paul  (03:23):

Yes, it was real. The, the risk was great. Probably greater than people realized. Well, you know, the public realized, I can tell you a story about a, a Russian submarine that nearly kicked off the whole thing. They had the permission to fire their missiles, but to have permission to fire their missiles, they needed the approval of three of the offices, three particular offices, two gave permission.

Mel (03:51):

Wow. That's terrifying.

Paul  (03:53):

And so we were as close as that, to the real thing. So, yes, it was very real. Very real.

Mel (03:59):

How did you come about working down there? How did this all happen for you?

Paul  (04:02):

To me personally?

Mel (04:03):

Yes, to you personally?

Paul  (04:04):

Well, I was a civil servant and on occasion, a memo would come out to all the departments saying, this service exists. Would you like to join? And so you apply and you're accepted, and in you go and then you're trained locally in the first case to do the job. You're appointed. Well, there, there were two particular groups of people within, within the organization. There were, they were general duties. People who, who were they? The gophers, if you like. And associated with them were these scientific advisors. Okay. And so if you, if you are a general duties person and they think you're appropriate, then they would invite you to be trained to become an sa. And, and that's what happened to me. I was, I was trained, trained, be trained as a ga. You're trained locally, first of all. Only then as a scientific advisor. You're trained more locally. But ultimately you go to the UK and, and have various courses culminating in a, these final test and an examination of you in a post called Easing World, which was the sort home office ue, defense, emergency Planning College. Wow. We would go there and, and be sort, finish our training.

Mel (05:18):

How long was your training in the uk? How long did you do that for?

Paul  (05:21):

Well, it was several sort of sessions. Should we ca say, so you go through sessions session Yeah. Of a, of a week or so, and in each case, and then say, go to Easy World and have your final week or so up there.

Mel (05:34):

That must have been intense.

Paul  (05:35):

Yeah, it was fun. It was fun. <Laugh> <laugh>. That's good. Yeah. It was, it was interesting. Yeah. It was, it was fascinating, in fact, you know? Yeah.

Perry (05:44):

Was it like an emotionally taxing time? 'cause You said no, the public don't realize how close

Paul  (05:49):

It was. I don't think emotionally that way. It was so busy. It was too busy in, in some ways to be emotional because you were very busy learning. There was a lot, a lot to learn, you know, about various, various aspects of the whole thing. It was, yeah. It was intense. But the worst thing we had, the worst sort of decision we had to make emotionally was that you know, I, I was, I am still a married man with a family, and were the day to come that we were called, our role was to go down the hole, you know, into the bunker in relative safety and leave our families up top.

Mel (06:24):

That must exposed must. Yeah. It's hard that

Paul  (06:26):

It was a difficult decision, but, and we talked about it at, at some length, you know, and we, we decided, well, yes, we would go down because one, we were paid. Yeah. You know, bouncy. But also, we were far more used to the population down there doing our job than sitting upstairs with the family under the stairs, you know, for three weeks.

Mel (06:47):

Which is what you would've had to have done had there been.

Paul  (06:49):

Yes. Oh. But we could potentially have been done down the bunker for weeks. Yeah. And the place was, is equipped still for that. And there's a main operations room and there with all the maps on the wall and, and things like that. There's a computer, tele printer room where we used to keep in touch with the Met office about all the winds and things like that. There is a bunk area, a galley, a kitchen and, and a restroom. And, and it's well equipped because potentially we could have been down there for weeks. And

Perry (07:16):

Would it really have been able to withstand a nuclear attack? Yeah. The

Paul  (07:21):

Bunker, it was the German bunker. So was it concrete walls about three or four feet thick, you know, Sammy set into the ground, and so yes, it would, it would with, it would withstand that. I'm sure. The only problem we had, of course, was that we did have an a generator, which if we lost power, we could have used the generator. We had a water supply up in the roof as well. But that wasn't infinite, you know, it would run out eventually. And so at the time would come probably that we would have to go home, you know? Mm-Hmm.

Mel (07:50):

Escape into the, not the unknowing, what you're going out into. Yeah. Well,

Paul  (07:54):

That was interesting as well. And we're thinking about what, what we were doing down there. We used to have fairly regular exercises down there, which were very, very real. It was all predetermined. You get messages, all predetermined messages for about things happening here, there, whatever else on the island. We'd have to respond to all of those. It would be very, very real down there. You were very busy getting messages from all over the UK and from France and stuff, and deciding what to do. And it became real, very, very real. And then at the end of it all, you'd go upstairs and go outside and get, oh, the world is still here. You know? It was, it was so real. It felt as if it was Armageddon had been,

Mel (08:32):

Yeah. It must have felt really like a twilight zone, like

Paul  (08:35):

A bubble. It was always, certainly was. Yeah. So we were totally enclosed, you know, we had, you know, big steel doors and stuff to go down and it was gas tight, airtight and all that kind of stuff. Completely enclosed. Yeah. And sealed off for the duration.

Mel (08:47):

Yeah. I don't think I would've done very well in that environment. No windows, right?

Paul  (08:50):

No windows.

Mel (08:51):

No. I would've got cabin fever very easily. Yeah.

Paul  (08:53):

You, oh yeah. But we were interested. Interesting. Because like you say, you see yourself, I mean, we, we were a mixed group down there. Of course there were, you know, men and women down there working out. Yeah. It wasn't just men. It was all, all sorts of folk down there. So

Mel (09:04):

How many of you would've been down there?

Paul  (09:06):

Who knows? Maybe 10, maybe more, maybe less. It depends upon the circumstances. But was there

Mel (09:12):

A maximum amount of people that could stay down there? Well,

Paul  (09:14):

We had the, you know, a list of, of, of people who were able to go down there. If it were for real annual exercises, we had representatives from the police service, ambulance service, and fire service as well. Right. And the role was, we had information knowing the circumstances outside. And the fire service would get a call saying, we've got a fire at St. Clement. Can we send a couple of trucks out? And they would come to us and say, can we go out? And depending upon the amount of radiation that was out there, we could say, yes, you can go out there for a limited period, two hours. Say, you know, other than that, you are exposing yourself to excessive risk and you would have to come back. But also, we, we didn't only deal with things like that. Potentially, we could have had a, a local farmer call in and say I've got my cows out in the field. Can I bring them in and milk them? You know? And so we would have to say yes or no, depending on, on the circumstances.

Extract from CWB Recording (10:18):

This first wave of attack has been broken up. Nevertheless, certain missiles, armed with nuclear warheads managed to escape our defenses and have exploded on the soil of the United States of America. In retaliation for this attempted first round knockout blow, the strategic air forces and naval task forces have already delivered a crippling nuclear blow. Armed it aimed at the hearts of the Eastern powers. This is the voice of America and forces network to Europe. Keep your set to the station for further items. New.

Perry (10:56):

Well, realistically, then if, if it did all happen, yeah. And then Armageddon did happen. Yeah. Like that. Yeah. How long would it be until it was safe? Would it ever be safe? It

Paul  (11:08):

Depends. You know, it depends. It depends. It's, it's nuclear. Yeah. And, and, and radiation. But it simply has something called half life. And so we know the beginning of the whole thing, how much of radiation there was, and then knowing that we could determine what the half life was and how long it would be before the radiation was safe, shall we say, before people could go out in with a, with a sort of a reasonable amount of risk. So it, it was, it, it was varied. It, it depended upon what had happened where, I don't think we were a target as a small island, but potentially there are places around us, like in, in France, for example, where there's breast berg north of us have got Plymouth, you know, major places. Southampton, which could have been struck. And depending upon what came, and the winds, again, we used to work with the Met Office.

Paul  (12:00):

And this is coming onto my role, really. We would work with the Met Office, know where these blasts, these bursts had happened. We would have from the Met office, the details of the winds. Because winds, you might know, they blow at different speeds. Mm-Hmm. <Affirmative> at different heights, different directions in different directions. Yeah, absolutely. So we would know that from met. And part of my role was to determine where any radiation was going to go. It's called plume plotting where the plume was going. And it didn't always go in a straight line. We had to work it out where it was going to go. And then depending upon that, if it was imminent, then we would let people know. And they would hopefully go to safety. In the uk there, there was a, a little pamphlet distributed called Protect and Survive. We had a similar one locally.

Paul  (12:44):

There's also in a guidance in the front of the telephone directory. And that would say, you know, with the likelihood of there being a burst and a nuclear attack, you take off your bedroom doors, you put the bedroom doors against the stairs, you make a shelter under the stairs, and there you stay for the duration until you are told to come out, which could be four weeks. So three weeks or so, under the stairs, no sanitation, no water, other than what you can store tinned food. You'd, you'd be advised to paint your windows white on the inside to reflect any flash. And there you stay for three weeks.

Mel (13:19):

I would love to know how many families actually had things in place in case this was to happen.

Paul  (13:25):

Precious, you.

Mel (13:26):

Yeah. I just can't imagine many people would be that prepared. No. And even then, that doesn't seem like enough to,

Paul  (13:32):

But what I mean, it, it's, to me, it's, it's impractical, improbable that you're gonna stay under the stairs. Yeah. With your three children, A bucket of water, a pal for a toilet, and a few bits of tinned food. Yeah.

Mel (13:45):

As humans, we kind of need more than that, don't we? Yeah.

Paul  (13:47):

Yeah. And again, the problem is, of course, is like I said, just now, radiation. You can't see it. Taste it. Smelly. Mm. You don't know it's theirs. So they would be looking out the window and saying, it's right out there. We're good. And have a walk to, again, that was our role, to reinforce the fact that there was radiation outside and it was dangerous. Don't go. 'cause People were advised to have a radio with and, and get listen to. Listen to the advice,

Perry (14:14):

Research your family history at the Jersey Archive. Dive into our vast online catalog or visit in person. Our expert staff await to guide you on your journey. We are open Monday to Thursday, nine to one, and then two to five subscribe today. Were there any plans to build any more defenses in the island in the case that happened, or was the Cold War?

Paul  (14:37):

None that I know of. No. I mean, we had the bunker, of course, and we had at least two out stations as well, whereas one was one and one at Gore, I think it was where we had people who were posted there, you know, in case it kicking off with monitors and radios and things like that. But other than that, no, there was nothing that I'm aware of.

Mel (14:57):

And if there was to have been an attack, how would you have, other than the radio, was there any other way of notifying people? Was

Paul  (15:03):

There, there, well, there were the sirens. They, they were in place who had sirens set off all around the road. They're currently stored in the bunker at the moment. Big pile of them inside the front door. But that was it. There were, there was a sirens, a a and the radio. That was really it.

Mel (15:19):

That was it. It would've just been panic station, really. I mean, I would've panicked hearing most times. Yeah.

Paul  (15:25):

You don't know really how people are going to respond until it happens.

Mel (15:28):

Ab absolutely.

Extract from CWB Recording (15:30):

The following bulletin was issued by the United Kingdom Air Defense Operations Center at 1145 this morning, following the breakdown of negotiations between the Western and Eastern cars announced earlier this morning. And the issue of a red air attack warning, a number of missile unidentified aircraft were reported crossing the Eastern and the southern coastlines. Nuclear explosions have been reported in a number of places. Assessment of the damage is now being made by light aircraft for the Royal Air Force. And that ends the emergency announcement. The further bulletin is expected to be issued by the Air Defense Operations Center at two o'clock this afternoon.

Mel (16:09):

So in terms of what people were doing down there, so you've explained that obviously there were scientists, your job was to look at the weather.

Paul  (16:16):

Well, two, two plot. She would say Where, where any radiation was going. It was me. I mean, I was a very junior little soul in there. There, there were, there were other folk that were far more intelligent and far more knowledgeable than me. You know, who were the seniors or the scientific people.

Mel (16:31):

So what would a typical day down there for you look like? What would you be doing?

Paul  (16:35):

Much of it would be waiting. We'd be waiting down there. We had telephone links, as I said, to up Cuomo in the UK and, and Toren. And we would be waiting for information or warnings to come in. We would be told, for example, then there was a, there'd been a burst, for example, on, on breast, should we say, thinking about the prevailing winds, possibly it's gonna come our way. We would have the information from that about the winds at the different levels. And we could then start doing that plotting where the burst was, where the plume was likely to be going. And then if necessary, warning the public. There was another little system we use as well for identifying where a, a burst had happened. There's very visual, you know, if, if a if it goes bang in the middle of the bay, you're gonna know about it. You'll see it. Okay. So you'll see it straight away. Of course, you see I imminent, you know, I immediate, but also it takes time for the sound to arrive. And you've heard, I'm sure you've all done it with thunder and lightning. You hear the flat see the flash, and you killed,

Paul  (17:42):

And you know how long it's taken for that sound to come to you. And from that, you can determine how far away it was. It's five seconds to the mile. So you can flash over there, count, and it's over there and it's, it's 10 miles away, or five, two miles away or whatever else. And plus also we had the other sites who would also be seeing it, and they can triangulate on that using, you know, directions and determine, you know, we we're triangulation, you know, using angles and stuff as to how far away it was as well. Yeah. And then from the height of it, you could also determine the, what's called the yield, how big it was. So that was what we were doing, all that kind of thing.

Mel (18:20):

Yeah, I mean, it's absolutely fascinating. And that's how things were measured. Obviously terrifying if this was to have happened. But I guess when you are working on this kind of thing, it must have been quite exciting to work as part of a team that's trying to do the right thing to make sure that you're getting information out there.

Paul  (18:36):

Although, yeah, I mean, there was, I mean, there was a group of essays working together and of course in circumstances like that, there'd be differences of opinion. Oh, if the radiation is so on, we can let them go out for two hours, or no, you can't, you know, it would be, there would be discussion between the, the, the sort of higher echelons of the SAS to say what we can and can't do.

Mel (18:56):

Yeah. Was there ever any kind of like, I don't know, like, just like arguments? No. Or

Paul  (19:01):

No? No.

Mel (19:02):

Everyone was very calm. We were

Paul  (19:03):

All very calm.

Perry (19:04):

I suppose you must have made, did you make lifelong friends in what your time with the bunk? Do you still speak to anyone from the

Paul  (19:11):

Few of them have gone <laugh> aggressively now, but yeah, there's one lady I, I still talk to and see to occasionally. She's a friend of my wife. Also a guy I call Paul Patterson, which I, I know still pretty well, he's hard, can't see very well, unfortunately. But he and I did much of our training together. But o other than that, maybe two or three, I still see occasionally, but not many.

Mel (19:34):

And how long did you work down there? So what year did you start?

Paul  (19:38):

I tried to remember that, but before I came down this morning, roughly just, I can't really remember. I, I think it must have been, it was early eighties, certainly. Okay. And I, I did maybe eight or nine years down there.

Mel (19:49):

Okay. So then you finished in the nineties, then

Paul  (19:51):

The, well, the whole thing wound up, you know, with, with, with the, you know, the Berlin wall coming down and I Cuomo closing down. So they closed that down for a small period of time after the nuclear site finished. We took over the, for emergency planning, shall we say, for stranded passengers for one, you know, for people where we put them. So we went around many of the schools around the island seeking places where we can put lots of people, you know, in school halls and, and, and things like that. And so we were doing a lot of that for a little while, but then eventually that faded as well. And so I, I I left.

Perry (20:29):

What would life have been like inside the bunker if you did have to stay down there for a long time? Did you have like, entertainment planned or anything to, to keep your, your brains going or chess boards? Yeah.

Paul  (20:44):

What we did have, don't quite call it entertainment necessarily, but we had a, a recording. We had a BBC studio where we could and did broadcast to the island in case of, you know, in case of need. And they had a record plan there. The LPs are still there that we had. Yeah, they are from the 1960s, you know, which are, I think I really rather good myself, but they're my, that's my era. But that's all there was really, I don't even think I remember seeing a pack of playing cards. It was, it was

Mel (21:10):

All, it's all business together.

Paul  (21:13):

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we had a galley, you know, a kitchen and we could cook down there if, if we chose to. And there was a restroom and you know, we can eat. Did

Mel (21:19):

Anyone cook down there?

Paul  (21:20):

I don't remember anyone doing any cooking. We had plenty of tea and coffee.

Mel (21:24):

Biscuits.

Paul  (21:25):

Biscuits, of course. Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah. But nothing more than that really.

Mel (21:29):

And did the general public know about what was going on down there? Like the kind of work that was being done?

Paul  (21:34):

I don't think so.

Mel (21:35):

So is it like kind of top secret? Well,

Paul  (21:37):

That's a good question actually. I mean, I, I, no one ever said to me it's secret. But being a civil servant, I had signed the Secrets Act, and so was knew when to sort of not say anything. I don't think it was deliberately shown to be secret, but it wasn't publicized and we didn't make a lot of saying, oh, we're all down here playing our games, you know, we didn't do that at all. And it's quite interesting you say that because there are folk living around there now in, in Flats and things nearby who have been in there, and they were there at the time, you know, in the flats at that time. And they are absolutely astonished. Gosh. And they walk into the, into the control room and they, it's, it's, it's pretty big. You know, there's a maps all around the wall. It's a bit like a tardis, you know? It's bigger.

Mel (22:25):

Yeah. It's fascinating.

Paul  (22:26):

It's bigger on the inside than the outside, you know? Yeah. And, and, but people didn't know. We didn't, we didn't publicize it. No, we don't think we talked about it apart from amongst ourselves. And it was, I mean, people didn't know about it, you know, I say people living nearby had no idea.

Mel (22:42):

Which is so interesting considering it's like you literally have residents that are on the doorstep of Yeah. The Bunker. Yeah. And

Paul  (22:49):

They were there at the time, you know?

Mel (22:50):

Yeah. Because it's in, it's in Springfield, so it's like there's a lot of residents around the area. Certainly. Yeah. But I think what fascinates me the most about the Coldwell Bunker is that it is pretty much untouched as to the last time people were working down there

Paul  (23:02):

As, as it was when we left,

Mel (23:04):

Which is

Paul  (23:04):

Fascinating. There were blackboards on the wall with writing on it and stuff like that about what, what was happening. The writing is still on the board. It's still

Mel (23:11):

There. Well, some of it's your handwriting, isn't it, Paul? It

Paul  (23:13):

Is. Yeah. It is. Yes. It's,

Mel (23:14):

Which is pretty incredible. And it's still there after, after all these years, all these years, <laugh>. Yeah.

Perry (23:19):

I mean, did you, did you continue to kind of visit it for any reason after? When was I didn't, was the time you went back to, to start doing

Paul  (23:26):

Tour? I didn't. Not at all. I, I left and that was it. You know, I didn't have any, any need to go back or any particular will to go back. And then Jersey Heritage decided to start opening it, and they t trawled around and found three of us. Two of them are the people I mentioned just now. I, I work with, you know, Paul Patterson particularly, and we took folk out in the first place. And it's sort of grown since then. And so I go down there now, down there tomorrow, in fact, in the afternoon. Yeah,

Mel (23:55):

We're going down with a group

Paul  (23:56):

Tomorrow. Some, some, some school, some schooling. Exactly tomorrow. But no, I didn't go back at all until through Heritage. It started to be opened up again.

Perry (24:03):

It's amazing. It was so untouched then, but I guess why would anyone be down there really? You know? Yeah, yeah,

Paul  (24:08):

Yeah. Yeah. It was, I mean, it's a remarkably good condition. It's, it is, it's pretty dry down. There's a bit of damp here and there, but all the, all the maps are there. Everything is there. It is still as it was the day we left.

Mel (24:20):

Yeah. It's an amazing site, which people can visit if they want to get in touch with Jersey Heritage. Yes. We, we are very lucky to have you, Paul, that actually you do the tours. Yeah. And it's so nice to have firsthand account. People

Paul  (24:33):

Have said that to me. It is interesting to talk to someone who was there doing the job. Absolutely.

Mel (24:38):

Yeah. It is. It just adds so much value to someone's visits to have. We're so lucky to have you. So thank you so much for that. I, I

Paul  (24:44):

Enjoyed,

Mel (24:45):

I enjoyed it. It was amazing. Yeah, for sure.

Paul  (24:46):

I enjoyed, and the thing I always do to kick it off now, I managed to get hold of a recording of a message that we would, it was a, it was one of the messages created, you know, for the exercises. But it talks about that being bursts of weapons over years, and it says in various places, you know, things like that. And that indicates our job, okay, there've been nuclear bursts, what the they're doing, and we can use that to identify the problem and what we were there for. And I use that, you know, for my, my talks now,

Mel (25:17):

Again, adds so much to

Paul  (25:19):

It. Yeah. It adds a bit of, bit of color.

Mel (25:20):

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. It makes you feel really like you, you are in there, in that space, in that time. So it does add so much to people's visits, I think.

Paul  (25:27):

So

Extract from CWB Recording (25:28):

The American continent has been under repeated bombardment by anti continental missiles of medium Canada and the states of Florida, California, Oregon, and Nevada have been desperately hit by a series of 50 megaton weapons burst at low and high levels, apparently in an attempt to immobilize our circumscribed silo capabilities. However, following early warning of attack, all our missiles programmed for a turn strike was safely away. And airborne alert aircraft were joined by many first degree alert aircraft so that a near maximum nuclear stroke has been made on the enemy.

Mel (26:06):

And everyone that goes down that is absolutely blown away that we have it. And that it is in, its, you know, in the current condition

Paul  (26:13):

We're, well, we're getting folk from all over the place now. We had somebody from Malta the other day, didn't we? Down there, I think. Yeah. We've had Scandinavians down there and

Mel (26:20):

Yeah, they're fascinated by it. Yeah. Yeah. I remember the first time I went to see it when I first started Heritage, which was about seven years ago now, which is a very long time. And I was blown away by how untouched it is. Yeah. There's literally pieces of paper everywhere. The drawers are full of documents. Yeah. There's

Paul  (26:38):

All the instruments we used to use. Everything is there calculators rather like a, a circular slide rule for calculating the, you know, the, the, the half life of, of fallout and things like that. There are seven values. They, they were called. If you're interested in that <laugh>. Yeah. It's all still there. Yeah.

Mel (26:54):

It's fascinating.

Perry (26:56):

If so if something like, you know, another kind of crisis happened, you know, in the modern day, how different do you think it would be now compared to back when you were doing it?

Paul  (27:08):

I mean, the cri let's think about the crisis, first of all. I mean, the, the chance of a, of a nuclear weapon crisis is I think remote perhaps, you know, for know these days. Do you, but remote perhaps however, terrorists have the ability to get hold of nuclear stuff if you like, and explosives and things like that. And could, again, it, it's not unlikely that they could detonate this in the middle of a city somewhere and cause disruption. You know, the problem is though, if, if, if it would happen nearby, we would have to do the job. I don't think there are many of us left who could do it. I'd say most of them have passed away. Regrettably, also, the facilities aren't really up to scratch now. I mean, we've got teleprinters down there, which, which you know, one says do not use. Last time it used was used it called fire. You know, so the equipment is a bit past it, frankly, like most of us <laugh>. I don't think it would be easy to set it up and get it going again in, in, in, in short order, you know, if there was a need to do it now, you know, nah wouldn't happen because the facilities and the people just aren't there.

Perry (28:19):

Yeah. And, and it's not kind of actively being supported that we know of, I

Paul  (28:23):

Suppose. No more than, you know, it, it only in a way the heritage does and, and preserves it and has been open to people to see, but there's no governmental support at all that I'm aware of anyway. Mm-Hmm. No, it, it's, it's just left as, as as a museum piece.

Perry (28:41):

Mm-Hmm.

Paul  (28:42):

I mean, people do worry about places like captain Ho a and what's the nuclear power station? Ville? I mean, what people worry about that? I mean, how was a noble happening? They think, oh, with a nuclear power station near us now, could that happen there? You know, no, I'd not. Okay. I'm not an expert on nuclear power stations, but I know I've been to, to ka ha and, and to Flamanville is, they're both in ca well, Flamanville, the two, two reactors there are encased in, in, in heavy duty con concrete domes, supposedly able to withstand having an aircraft flying. So the charge said them going off pop, because Chernobyl was different. He just had a flat roof. And the, the explosion on the reactor in Chernobyl, it blew the roof off and spread all the radioactive waste, as we know, all through Europe, Scandinavia, and into Scotland. So different. It's different.

Mel (29:36):

Are you a Jersey Heritage member? If not, head to our website and sign up today. One of our many benefits is 20% off professional research at the Jersey Archive.

Perry (29:48):

I suppose a, a more recent one, if I'm correct, was the another one in Japan, wasn't it? Was it Fukushima?

Paul  (29:53):

Fukushima. That was a nuclear power station. Yeah. Power station. Yeah. and the problem with that, it was flooded tsunami, which engulfed the nuclear power station in, in seawater, which is not a good idea. They don't mix too well. Right. And risk is still there. There, there's I only nuclear power. It's everywhere you, yeah. It's all over the place, you know, but I think risk of, of, of a nuclear attack, that's what we are concerned. It's very remote. Yeah. In my humble opinion, <laugh>, I'm not a politician.

Mel (30:22):

Were you ever scared?

Paul  (30:23):

No. Really?

Mel (30:25):

Why? I would've been terrified. <Laugh>.

Paul  (30:26):

Well, I can't answer that. I just wasn't, yeah, I mean, I don't think any of us was, was scared particularly. We were just busy and doing our job,

Perry (30:34):

I guess. Yes. You were saying before you were just so busy doing Yeah. Training and all that, that

Paul  (30:39):

You just Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I suppose you could be a bit naive in a way. Mm-Hmm. It's not gonna happen anyway. You know, you could be a bit that way, but no, I wasn't scared. I don't think anybody was, was scared.

Mel (30:50):

So just quickly going back to the other people that work that you worked with. So we, we talked about, you know, obviously, so you had someone that did the broadcasting. So was there like a, like a radio personality person down there?

Paul  (31:02):

I wouldn't say radio personality <laugh> but one of the, one of the team would do it. Yeah.

Mel (31:07):

Okay. And everyone had knew how to use the equipment, all that kind of stuff. I didn't have

Paul  (31:10):

A clue. Alright.

Mel (31:11):

Okay.

Paul  (31:12):

It wasn't my job, you know, I was, I was there busy enough doing my plotting and stuff like that. And so the people who were doing the radio broadcasts were the people doing the radio broadcast. You know, they, they were the ones that was their role. I mean the, the general duties. People had their role, they were doing that. So we were all at the top end where the mats were doing our job, you know? So we didn't cross over very much, you know? Yeah. Except if for, if you were, you know, a senior sa scientific advisor, well they would be busing around all over the place, you know. But no, they stood by me, Matt, and me, bit of chalk and doing that.

Mel (31:46):

And did you have any like, government officials down there? So was there like any politicians that were involved and No,

Paul  (31:52):

No, no. People often ask that question, you know, it was a nice, cozy, safe little hideaway, you know, politicians banging on the door trying to come in, you know? Now the only people down there were those who were doing the job. And also, for example, you know, the fire police and ambulance people as well as, as their representatives. But no, it was, it wasn't used as a, a safe little hiding hole for anybody.

Mel (32:15):

Well, thank you very much for your time. My pleasure today, Paul. It's lovely to chat to you. Thank you, Paul. And see you tomorrow

Extract from CWB Recording (32:23):

I end with a message from the president of these United States who is now in safety somewhere in the hot land of America. He says, Europe has suffered, America has suffered Russia, China, the world have suffered. But remember, this cannot be the end. Some of us will endure to build again, the future of mankind. God bless you all, wherever you may be. That's all from WKZ for this transmission Europe. Our next transmission will be in two hours, repeat two hours on the same frequencies. Keep your hearts as high as you can people everywhere. And remember, the best protection against fallout is Jockey Shorts.

Perry (33:05):

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